Posts by GrownMidget

183

JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 in

1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

GrownMidget

Although I know this is either a troll or you will never answer back, I will still throw out stuff.
Maybe I am wrong and you really read but are just ignorant individual trying to test your faith.

1) Many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings

While religion in general might have positive effects in ones life, it can also have negative effect of great magnitude. I was in a destructive path indeed, but that was while I was in the organization being a game piece. After leaving, I have found peace that I was said never to find. And that can be seen pretty often in the publications by the organization. "All the good is only within the religion of witnesses and by leaving you will lose yourself in the world". Hearing something like this in the meetings is way too often so you start to believe it. What they say is a lie on majority of people.

If interested more, read the long tirade I made as my first post.

2) Equal monthly pay to all members of the Bethel community regardless of whether they are BC members or sweepers. This is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

I'm not sure about the pay, but would guess it's at max a money to get tooth brush and shampoo because God demands cleanness. Now the majority are being kicked out for their hard work at Bethel and organization still has balls to ask them for more via pioneering (which surely is completely free labor).

4) Numerous legal victories in favor of freedom of expression and beliefs have helped even non-JWs also.

And many lost ones. You really think they will openly admit to regular members losing a legal case? lol. That would cause hysteria because Jehovah wasn't blessing them this time.
As an example, Candace Conti case. Heard of it at the meetings? I doubt. Also there is one going on right now where Governing Body member, Geoffrey Jackson, is being questioned by the Australian Royal Commission. Future will tell what will happen with that one.

5) They effectively invited the attention of the world into the thinking that evolution theory is just a theory

Evolution is proven by facts. Creation theory is not proven by anything and actually science disproves what Bible says to be true (6000 years of humanity and what not). It's all only in a book written long ago by primitive man without any understanding of what is going on in the universe or on the earth, therefore "God". Sounds like Giorgio A. Tsoukalos.

And as a last thing, few things right in the Bible are not proof of divinity. Rabbit eating its poop can be a good observation since to human it's weird to eat feces. Earth hanging in the space could also be poetry, they might have had very wise men living in their ages that had access to good equipment of that time or simply just a damn good guess.

List can go on and on. At the same time I admit that they also have their weak side which arose unwittingly out of good-intention. -- Of course I do refrain from shunning which I personally consider as wrong. -- When I found certain things confusing, I brought to the attention of the higher-ups who, in turn, told me to wait for Jehovah.

That is called cherry-picking, which in this case is hypocrisy. You basically say that all apostates are wrong yet you admit yourself that there are problems within the organization that you are trying to protect. For the last part I say that the elders use your ignorance against you. You accept that "Jehovah is controlling things", while in reality you are dedicating your life to an organization that has a one goal and one goal only: to make free and legal slave labor and get as many tax-free donations as possible before it dries out. This is done using the God (Jehovah) and the Bible.

In your case, you are not enjoying your lives even after coming out of JWs --What did those who declared: “we should kill Lazarus also” gain? (John 12:10) You can easily dismiss Lazarus episode as fictional. Yet history has enough examples of attacking the good just because they are good.

How can you speak for all the members of this community? I personally have been enjoying my life so much more after I left. Maybe you should try this before you judge us? We have tried your way, while you haven't tried ours. Take distance to the organization for a year. People who were in said, after I recontacted them, that I had changed to better, thus something is going on within the organization. Some here might be speaking for all the witnesses but majority are not. If you or any other witness truly believe that you are deep down happy in your heart, who are we to judge? That's a great thing then! Religion is doing what it is supposed to be doing, but I really doubt that majority of witnesses is feeling this way.

These "good people" you speak of are usually killed because they are seen as a threat to the money/power going on within the stuff they are fighting for. Kill the starter and you will destroy the problem. Organization is trying (and would, if it was legal*) to kill apostates off because they are a serious problem to their company imago, legal and free slave labor and tax-free donations.

* "We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. “Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee.”—Deut. 13:6-11, AS.

Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof." (w52 Nov. 15 p. 703)

Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof." (w52 Nov. 15 p. 703)

Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof." (w52 Nov. 15 p. 703)

Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof." (w52 Nov. 15 p. 703)

50

Pranks to play in the hall...

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

what pranks could you/would you/ have you played in the kingdom hall?.

i have never but here's two i've thought of, 1) replace the liquid soap with glue 2) smear nutella everywhere in the bathroom!.

what's yours?.

GrownMidget

I once pulled out the XLR cables coming from the speaker's platform microphone. They somehow were connected into a box that seemed to go inside the platform and from there into the audio system - or at least that's what I figured out.

Before the meeting started, the elder starting it was walking around the hall trying to figure it out. Eventually they did and then everyone looked at me because I was the only kid.

Yeah, pretty old prank and I was young but since you asked...

20

Shunning is psychologically terrorizing

by poopie in

jw
friends

its barbaric.

GrownMidget

Has any of you heard of Harry Harlow? He died in the 80's but during his time he did some controversial studies using monkeys where he would basically strip infants from any physical contact, which eventually somewhat lead to their death.

Thinking that we, as humans, are social primates, and monkeys being close relatives, I am not surprised that in long run something bad might/will come out of the organization's evil shunning policies.
On top of that this is not even "for science", it's simply made to maximize the free slave work and never ending greed for more money. Bible is very effective weapon when used correctly.

If you want to read more about the experiment, check the Wikipedia page for starters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Harlow

27

Received a YouTube Hate Message

by cappytan in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses are such loving people with christian personalities, are they not?.

.

(ps, yes, i have a youtube channel.

GrownMidget

"Name of the Lord"? Organization is the one taking the name and slamming it all around. We can only talk about what they use, since they made up the name "Jehovah's Witnesses". How is it misuse since we didn't even implement it?

Anyway, this guy is "weak in faith" since he's on your videos to begin with. You can always see that these who blame apostates/faders are the ones with most guilt and that they are not happy in the situation they are in. Organization just gives them a way to let out their hate (burn those witch apostates!!) that builds up over the years from being unsure about your future.

I hope this individual will find his peace because the situation is not healthy in long run.

37

A question about fading....

by Tornintwo in

jw
friends

i understand that many on this forum are undertaking a slow fade, over months, years even.. can i ask what is the benefit of that instead of a fast fade?.

as i understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc.

so surely the sooner you stop attending meetings the better.

GrownMidget

as I understand it, the elders only have to deal judicially with people who are still active witnesses, known in the community as witnesses, having contact and influence with witnesses etc.

That is pretty much how it should go based on the elders manual. It all depends on many factors. Family, friends, your status, your activity level, how nosy the elders are, how much they want to sanction you and many others.

Pretty quickly after my judicial committee, I somewhat quit going. I still agreed with an elder to study with me to "strengthen my faith", but during the first visit I realized that he's not allowing me to have my own faith supported by the "spiritual food", but instead it has to be exactly what he has been taught by the organization. Because of the abusive nature of the organization and my past, I started to cry in front of him and as a man that is often seen as a very big sign of weakness yet it is not. In this context I felt humiliated. I decided that I don't want this. Later I texted him that I no longer want to study and he texted me back asking what is the reason. I said that I simply don't want and that emotionally it is too heavy. It was over after that and I was never contacted by the body of elders anymore. I have now officially faded, with only few conditional friends cutting me loose.

Personally, I consider dissociation as the best solution. It's the way where you decide your faith, not the elders. Some say that it's playing by the rules but personally I beg to differ due to the next point. Which is, that way you don't have to hear about the witness herp-derp hype anymore. Down side, just like in the disfellowshipping is that you lose family, friends and all the other social contacts. If you have no family/friends in or they have already cut contacts, might as well just announce officially that you no longer agree. I still want to write the letter myself, but feel that right now in this time and moment I am not ready for it.

25

Long Story of my Life/Experience

by GrownMidget in

also, my wife has come to her limits of understanding me about the witnesses related grief i have been having.

she has told me many times to stop reading the ex-witness sites because i get depressed and become angry, which sadly is true.

it's not very productive to be sad throughout the entire day and then shout at your wife for the reason she has no first hand experience about, therefore how could she possibly know and help?

GrownMidget

Once we get to freely express ourselves, we do not feel repressed. I am so sorry for what happened to you as a child, being forced to the floor, the crazy things (yes, crazy) that adults did to you! Anyone would say, "What the heck is going on here?" and children do not have the power, or the means to escape all of the time.

Heh, it's funny that to me it's "normal" and when someone is having normal life, to me it's "weird". Normality is a weird concept. Anyway, my parents often used Bible to try to make me do what they say.

(New International Version)
Exodus 20:12; "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you."
Ephesians 6:1; "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right."
And completely forgot Ephesians 6:4; "Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord."

And no, I am not believing this is from God, because I don't believe he exists to begin with. Just trying to say that their methods were fucked up and all this power was given to them by the Governing Body, who says that God has appointed them.

Now years later, my mom is very sorry for all, but too bad that damage is done. My step dad also included me and his son as the only persons in his will. I am guessing he is feeling bad for the things he has done and is trying to say he's sorry.

10

What the GB/Lawyers Should Be Worrying About

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

perhaps this was touched on in another thread so i apologize if it was ( i don't get to read all of the posts on here all the time) .

who leaked that october letter that was read about the midweek meeting restructuring and reduction in magazines?

it only could've been someone fairly high up in the organization or someone in the it department that converted it to pdf format, or someone from a branch that is in charge of digital correspondence, translation, etc.

GrownMidget

I took a lot of pleasure the following morning informing 2 ladies on the cart near where I live about the new arrangements, they looked at me like I was insane

I remember one time, while I was still in, after the meeting I said that I feel there is a mole. Years later coming online and then realize that I was right was a weird feeling.

25

Long Story of my Life/Experience

by GrownMidget in

also, my wife has come to her limits of understanding me about the witnesses related grief i have been having.

she has told me many times to stop reading the ex-witness sites because i get depressed and become angry, which sadly is true.

it's not very productive to be sad throughout the entire day and then shout at your wife for the reason she has no first hand experience about, therefore how could she possibly know and help?

GrownMidget

You have taken your next step towards reading these things without anger and sadness.

I remember few years ago after my fading process, when I started to read the critical stuff about the organization, it felt like I'm going to die or something other horrible stuff because apostates and faders are always described as such a negative association. Nothing like that never happened and I am glad I started the process of deprogramming.

I hope you'll find inner peace one day. I've learned that the best place to search for that, is inside yourself... Nobody outside you can 'give' it to you.

I wish I had learned that years ago, while I was still in. Would have saved me a trouble of explaining shit all over again to everybody who I thought might be supportive. Only after fading did I realize that most witnesses are not any more special people than any other group or faithless people. They can actually be much more worse.

I still have some friends who still are with me (not as much, but not shunning in any regard either) despite that I have faded. Family is as well, even my sister and her elder husband. I wish my sister had told me earlier that if you are looking for the acceptance you need from witnesses, you will get disappointed and that sure did happen.

Lucky for me that I am a person who likes to spend most of my time alone, therefore I don't need as much social contacts as other people might. This also had some impact of helping me fade.

Thank you for the comments!

25

Long Story of my Life/Experience

by GrownMidget in

also, my wife has come to her limits of understanding me about the witnesses related grief i have been having.

she has told me many times to stop reading the ex-witness sites because i get depressed and become angry, which sadly is true.

it's not very productive to be sad throughout the entire day and then shout at your wife for the reason she has no first hand experience about, therefore how could she possibly know and help?

GrownMidget

Thank you!

It's often hard to know where things are coming. It's sometimes childhood traumas, sometimes religion and sometimes it's both because parents causing trauma using religion and religion causing trauma using God.

25

Long Story of my Life/Experience

by GrownMidget in

also, my wife has come to her limits of understanding me about the witnesses related grief i have been having.

she has told me many times to stop reading the ex-witness sites because i get depressed and become angry, which sadly is true.

it's not very productive to be sad throughout the entire day and then shout at your wife for the reason she has no first hand experience about, therefore how could she possibly know and help?

GrownMidget

I am glad you kept trying up till now and that it has lead you to a better place.

Thank you! It is great feeling to understand that I am no longer bound by any of the religious dogma.

Welcome to the ranks of the mentally diseased LOL.

I think I used to think that I should say that to other people.

Well, I don't know whether the mental illness comes first and then people are attracted to the religion for stability or the religion causes mental illness. But, I do know there is a lot of mental illness in the JWs.
In my case, there is mental illness in non JW family members.

I don't think religion itself causes mental illness since many seem to be OK and even find strength from it. Some might even find the rules of the cult protective and if they do then who am I to judge them. I would still argue that for one who is happy, there is 10 who has problems with the way things are done - and not just basic rebellious "this sucks ass, I'm outta here guys", but real problems straight out caused by the cult.

I like to think that war, as one, creates this thing called Posttraumatic stress disorder. In this context I will equate it to evolution for sake of easy understanding as what I mean. When our great-great grandfathers has gone through a traumatic experience and later becomes diagnosed with PTSD, it will lead to abusive and mistreatment of their children, alcohol, drugs and so forth. In return they cause same treatment to their children. It will take many generations of bullying and torture before the wrongdoings of our fathers can be undone and situation is back to normal. Worst case scenario, due to war the cycle is never even broken and your entire family commits suicide because of politics you either had small or nothing to do with to begin with.

In my case there has been mental sickness from my grandparents too, who were not even witnesses. What kind, I have no idea. I just heard people quoting my grandpa saying that "if his mother and father are like this, it's no wonder the son is like that." Based on what my family has told me anything about my father is that he often did crazy stuff. Once during meeting he just quietly snapped while sitting, went outside in a car and crashed it into others on the parking lot.

I'm in the US and it is very, very expensive. As I read your story I kept thinking, 'How can he afford to keep going to the hospital?

When someone attempted suicide, they are taken to regular hospital first to see if the person is OK before they are sent to psychiatric hospital. Now, to be honest I am not completely sure about the psychiatric hospital, if it is free or not. I sure don't remember anybody ever mentioning money, however I was underage person when all happened (except for the last attempt, where I was given bill). School is free, offering free food so I would think that supporting momentarily one's crisis is too. Psychiatric treatment is not free, but there are agencies helping to cover the expenses.

I will likely soon stop visiting here myself. Like you, I too find myself negatively impacted by many of the things that I read on here and elsewhere.

Despite if I read or not, I still get outbursts of sadness that later turn into anger. I wouldn't have joined unless it's a must since I really don't want to spend my life dedicated into naming and shaming my old religion. It just seems many people have never even let out their anger, instead they feed on it. It is most likely a survival mechanism that has always happened but in this case it's no longer working for me, thus I want to get things out. Look at a pet, dog or cat, that has their entire lives been mistreated and see how they act even if the most sweetest granny came to give food. It's the only thing they know. They don't know anything else and therefore they must protect themselves to survive.

I feel the stress is so much that it's negatively affecting my life and marriage. Someone posts something negative to get out their pain, it affects you because it reminds you of your own unhealed wounds. Even basic news about witnesses have this same effect on me. Has always had, even when I was in. I used to read news and think that hopefully there is nothing (secretly still wanting there was), and when there was I couldn't resist to read the news because it's technically forbidden.

Thank you all for your messages!