marking for later
Posts by 00DAD
-
24The Apostate Boogeyman--a figment of JW imagination
by Londo111 inapostates are a figment of the jw imagination.
not necessarily the dictionary definition of the word apostate, which simply means a person who leaves their religion, for by that definition everyone who leaves a religion to become a jw is an apostate--but the jw conception of the apostate, both as an individual and as a 'group' is imaginary.. .
for starters, the watchtower goes beyond the definition of merely leaving the religion, if a person disagrees with a doctrine or practice of the organization, even if they dont voice it, that is a thoughtcrime called apostasy.
-
-
-
130
How many former Jehovah's Witnesses bury their head in the sand when it comes to reasoning about the NGO "conspiracy"?
by Change Name inhi all - sure sure, you can call me a troll or brainwashed cult member.
i am totally interested in how your answers to these questions.. .
do you find yourself ignoring anything that jehovah's witnesses bring out in regards to their former status as an ngo?.
-
-
00DAD
frankiespeakin: So in one corner of their mouth they are called opposers, then in the other corner are thanked for bringing it to their attention so that they could correct it.
Great observation!
This is a classic example of the WTBTS talking outta' both sides of their mouth!
-
51
My chat with an Elder about the UN thing! Help!
by awakening inwell it was a very long discussion.
the elder knew nothing about the scandal, but he stated that he had no issue with it since when the case was brought to light, the society acted immediately to right their course.
in fact he thought it was a sign that that the organisation was indeed the "truth".
-
-
00DAD
wholly: My Bible Study Teacher ... then stated "Apostates tried to claim that the Branch was a member of the UN when it actually was they were members of a news group that gave news access privileges for writing purposes.
Uh, no!
An NGO of the UN is NOT a "news group" in any way, shape or form!
wholly: My Bible Study Teacher: "Apostates are crafty and their "strong evidence" is information that is either outright lies or information taken out of context. This is a classic example of that."
Um, who is guilty of outright lies here?
-
130
How many former Jehovah's Witnesses bury their head in the sand when it comes to reasoning about the NGO "conspiracy"?
by Change Name inhi all - sure sure, you can call me a troll or brainwashed cult member.
i am totally interested in how your answers to these questions.. .
do you find yourself ignoring anything that jehovah's witnesses bring out in regards to their former status as an ngo?.
-
-
00DAD
OK, I found this letter. Was this what you were talking about Phizzy?
I did not see this as an elder when it was written.
Just for balance compare it with this letter from the UN:
-
51
My chat with an Elder about the UN thing! Help!
by awakening inwell it was a very long discussion.
the elder knew nothing about the scandal, but he stated that he had no issue with it since when the case was brought to light, the society acted immediately to right their course.
in fact he thought it was a sign that that the organisation was indeed the "truth".
-
-
00DAD
There's currently another thread going on this subject that was started 2 days ago:
The WT's excuse for their NGO affiliation with the UN was supposedly to obtain a "library card."
But when you compare that to the fact that, if any R&F JW went to the YMCA to go swimming they would be labeled an apostate and summarily DF'd, then we get a sense of the hypocrisy going on here!
• " In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization . He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25). Nor is his membership merely an entry pass , as when a person buys a theatre ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah's Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy ." - w79 1/1 p. 31 - [Emphasis added]
This is excerpted from a letter dated March 4, 2004 from Paul Hoeffel, the then Chief of the Non-Governmental Organizations (NGO) Section of the U.N. Department of Public Information. It was written in response to "numerous inquiries regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI)."
The letter states:
"This organization [the WTBTS] applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992. By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities." - [Emphasis added]
In addition, the criteria for NGOs to become associated with DPI include the following:
• that the NGO share the principles of the UN Charter;
• operate solely on a not-for-profit basis;
• have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and a proven ability to reach large or specialized audiences, such as educators, media representatives, policy makers and the business community;
• have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins and pamphlets, organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting the cooperation of the media.
[End excerpt]
Also, it is significant that during this period the WTBTS published many articles, mainly in the Awake!, that were very pro-UN. If the NGO association was done by a rogue "someone at the Branch" in Bethel, how did they get the Writing Department in on the act?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
See also:
The article that broke the story:
-
130
How many former Jehovah's Witnesses bury their head in the sand when it comes to reasoning about the NGO "conspiracy"?
by Change Name inhi all - sure sure, you can call me a troll or brainwashed cult member.
i am totally interested in how your answers to these questions.. .
do you find yourself ignoring anything that jehovah's witnesses bring out in regards to their former status as an ngo?.
-
-
00DAD
Phizzy: There was also a letter to Elders telling them how to lie about it if questioned.
I was serving as an elder in the US at the time. I do not recall such a letter. Does anyone have a copy or a link?
Although it was not long after that I went on-line to research this issue. This was one of the first things that woke me up to TTATT.
Amelia Ashton: Without researching it as far as I can recall Jimmy Swaggart was taken to court regarding taxes on the religious literature he sold and his defense was funded by The watchtower Society.
It's been a while, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but as I recall the WTBTS filed an amicus curiae brief (a friend of the court) in this matter. That would not be the same as funding Swaggart's defense. Do you have any references to anything that substantiates your comment?
I think it was pretty clear to any JWs at the time that the move to a "voluntary donation" arrangement was to avoid paying taxes. But it did have the benefit of making the religion appear more religious and less commercial.
-
4
Daily Mail shunning article...
by The Song Remains The Same inpity no mention of wts..... url http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2288575/giving-cold-shoulder-it-painful-researchers-claim.html (sorry on ipad cant link it properly).
apologies if noted already.
tsrts.
-
-
00DAD
Interesting article. Thanks for sharing it, TSRTS!
Ann, I agree with you completely. It is a very different thing for an INDIVIDUAL to decide on their own whether or not they want to end a relationship with someone than the way shunning is practiced among JWs. As we all know, with them it is--as you described it--an INSTITUTIONALIZED form of shunning whereby all JWs everywhere are obliged to shun an individual just because three elders somewhere said so. In theory at least, the majority of the JWs don't even know why they are shunning the person except that they are following "theocratic direction" aka "orders."
Two more points:
- According to the scripture in Matthew 18, the entire congregation was to be involved in the process and/or decision (assuming it got to that point), not just three elders. It was a public (or at least a community) process not conducted in a secret Star Chamber. Even then, it was up to each individual to decide how to treat someone that "does not listen to them."
- Finally, the scripture says that such a person would be treated " as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." We were told that the Jews generally didn't have close association with such people. This is NOT the same as the extreme form of shunning practiced by JWs today.
All in all, when you examine shunning as practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses, you find that it does not harmonize with what the Bible teaches.
In the end, we realize that the WTBTS has takes scriptures and twisted their meaning to create policies that are intended to control people.
The article referenced in the OP shows that shunning not only injures the person that is shunned, but it hurts those doing the shunning. Way to go WT! Because of you're insane need to control people, you have found a way to harm everyone involved.
Let's review: It's a cult!
00DAD
-
32
Just my little story
by MinistryOfTruth in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].
i have been lurking here for about a month or two.
it is really awesome to read so many similar experiences.. for example, when i was still 'in' i wondered if i was the only one in the hall that really hated the meetings.
-
-
00DAD
Welcome!
-
130
How many former Jehovah's Witnesses bury their head in the sand when it comes to reasoning about the NGO "conspiracy"?
by Change Name inhi all - sure sure, you can call me a troll or brainwashed cult member.
i am totally interested in how your answers to these questions.. .
do you find yourself ignoring anything that jehovah's witnesses bring out in regards to their former status as an ngo?.
-
-
00DAD
Look, it was the WTBTS that told us the UN was a "disgusting thing."
No one put a gun to their head and told them to join.
As has been amply proved, the WTBTS would label YOU an apostate if you went swimming at the YCMCA. So how in the world to they think they could be labelled as anything LESS than immense hypocrites for becoming a NGO of the UN?
Look, cut the bullshit. The leaders of the WTBTS are complete liars and hypocrites. They have betrayed the trust of tens of millions of people and ruined the lives of countless others by their abusive controlling policies, rules and regulations.
Their actions are completely inexcusable. It is a crime against humanity.
End of story.
00DAD
-
130
How many former Jehovah's Witnesses bury their head in the sand when it comes to reasoning about the NGO "conspiracy"?
by Change Name inhi all - sure sure, you can call me a troll or brainwashed cult member.
i am totally interested in how your answers to these questions.. .
do you find yourself ignoring anything that jehovah's witnesses bring out in regards to their former status as an ngo?.
-
-
00DAD
I have not read the entire thread, so I apologize in advance if anyone else has already posted any of this:
The WT's excuse for their NGO affiliation with the UN was supposedly to obtain a "library card."
But when you compare that to the fact that, if any R&F JW went to the YMCA to go swimming they would be labeled an apostate and summarily DF'd, then we get a sense of the hypocrisy going on here!
• "In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25). Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theatre ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah's Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy." - w79 1/1 p. 31 - [Emphasis added]
This is excerpted from a letter dated March 4, 2004 from Paul Hoeffel, the then Chief of the Non-Governmental Organizations (NGO) Section of the U.N. Department of Public Information. It was written in response to "numerous inquiries regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI)."
The letter states:
"This organization [the WTBTS] applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992. By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities." - [Emphasis added]
In addition, the criteria for NGOs to become associated with DPI include the following:
• that the NGO share the principles of the UN Charter;
• operate solely on a not-for-profit basis;
• have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and a proven ability to reach large or specialized audiences, such as educators, media representatives, policy makers and the business community;
• have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins and pamphlets, organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting the cooperation of the media.
[End excerpt]
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
See also:
The article that broke the story:
