Posts by 00DAD

73

Circuit Assembly Highlights. Day 1

by DATA-DOG in

well things were actually pretty boring.

i mean really boring.

that's the price of fading i guess.

00DAD

sauerkraut: sadly many Witnesses will drive home and feel ashamed because they have doubts inside.

That's the idea! That's why they say this. It's a classic techique of manipultors.

sauerkraut: Most will sit there and blame evil Catholics for their filthiness and child abuse cases, unaware that their own religion is no better, worse even because no one in the Organization ever stands up to do something about it.

This is not true. Many in the organization have "stood up" and "spoken out" about this terrible abuse. Without exception, every single one has been disfellowshipped as a reward for their outspoken stand for what is right.

There are many examples, but Barbara Anderson comes to mind first. Perhaps you're not familiar with her or her story. She was a Bethel insider for nearly eleven years and a member of the Watchtower’s Writing Department. On her website she provides remarkable insight into the workings of the organization, particularly in reference to the scandal involving the cover-ups of pedophiles.

You might find her website informative:

http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/

00DAD

73

Circuit Assembly Highlights. Day 1

by DATA-DOG in

well things were actually pretty boring.

i mean really boring.

that's the price of fading i guess.

00DAD

Data-dog, Thanks for sharing your "private beliefs."

It's interesting, isn't it? Once you wake up, almost everything the WT publishes and almost everything the elders say is a conflicting mess of confusing hyperbole and incoherent "theological" nonsense. Contradiction this and contradiction that.

It actually becomes hard to find valuable points worthy of consideration. They're there, but few and far between.

00DAD

22

Since the wt is discredited, what is the pillar and support of truth now?

by prologos in

since the wt with its doctrines past and present is discredited, is there an entity that can be shown to be the latter- day "-----pillar and support of truth---" paul was writing about at i tim 3:15.?

have the believers or non-theists or exjws an equivalent at all ?

because humans like to huddle around the fire for the radiant heat.

00DAD

The same as it always was. It never changed. You're confused because you, for a period of time, thought the WT actually was the pillar and support of the truth.

Nothing has actually changed except your perceptions and beliefs.

27

With elders like that, who needs Pharisees!

by 00DAD in

i'm sure you're all familiar with the quip, "with friends like that, who needs enemies!

a recent thread got me thinking about how this easily applies to the organization in general and to many of the elders in particular.

now i know, there are some few good elders out there (god knows i tried to be one).

00DAD

Hi all, thanks for your comments!

problemaddict: The sisters in his own congregation gave him a nickname. Know what it is? The Pharisee.

Funny! Except there are a lot o' guys with that nickname. He's lucky you didn't take his head off. His "lordship." What an ass. I can't figure out which they are more full of: themselves or shit? Maybe they're the same thing!

DaCheech: yep, once I had to tell an elder face to face: "I thought only 1 can judge?"............... "you're claiming to read my mind?"when the elderscomplaint was on "supposed" thoughts of mine, he had to back off!

Good for you standing up for yourself and righteousness. I don't suppose it won you any friends.

prologos: in amy given BOE, guess which Pharisee will set the tone? The leaven of the Pharisees spreading from the top down.

Yeah, I don't know. I only served on two elder bodies and it wasn't necessarily the PO/COBE that set the tone.

Sometimes the PO was only a figure-head and it was another elder or elder(s) or their wives that seemed to have the most influence. No matter how you slice it, it's still a shit sandwich. They make up a bunch of rules that aren't scriptural and expect everyone to bow down to them.

perfect1 : there is a moment in Rays trial video where they mention stoning him as well- must be a thing they do.

Really? I'm not all that surprised. I tried watching some of RP's vids but had to stop. They made me ill.

wha happened?: It's so inconsistant

Exactly. And that's the point really, isn't it!

They make up a bunch of rules (sometimes as they go along). It's all about keeping them in authority and anyone not on their team (READ: Under their control) off balance and without any authority.

27

With elders like that, who needs Pharisees!

by 00DAD in

i'm sure you're all familiar with the quip, "with friends like that, who needs enemies!

a recent thread got me thinking about how this easily applies to the organization in general and to many of the elders in particular.

now i know, there are some few good elders out there (god knows i tried to be one).

00DAD

I'm sure you're all familiar with the quip, "With friends like that, who needs enemies!"

A recent thread got me thinking about how this easily applies to the organization in general and to many of the elders in particular. Now I know, there are some few good elders out there (God knows I tried to be one). But even the best-intentioned elders are still "tools" running WT Software. At best, they are harmless. At worst, they are dangerous!

Yes, some of the elders are truly frightening. They seeminly get off on abusing the flock. Hence the expression:

With elders like that, who needs Pharisees!

(I think I just coined that! Cool, huh? Feel free to use it.)

I'd invite you to share some of your most poignant experiences highlighting the Pharisaical nature of the typical elder or elder body. Feel free to express yourself. Pull no punches!

I'll start things off:

Once, years ago in a Kingdom Hall far, far away, after falling into a practice of "sin" I requested some help from the elders. A Judicial Committee was assigned to hear my request for assistance.

In my request, I included a reference to the parable of the Prodigal Son thinking that it would indicate my contrite attitude and soften their stony hearts. I was wrong.

During the meeting, one elder told me that if we were still under the Mosaic Law that they'd take me outside and stone me to death.

Shocked, but not quite speechless, I reminded him that we are under the Law of the Christ and that he might want to take a glance at John 8:1-11.

Not too surprisingly, said elder did not appreciate me pointing any of this out. Apparently, I was supposed to take the verbal "stoning" and like it.

Now I've read the account of the Prodigal Son hundreds of times. I've never noticed the Father saying anything to his returning son like, "Welcome home son. Sorry, but we're going to have to take you outside and stone you to death." I guess I must've missed it.

The upshot was the Judicial Committee declined to give me any further "spiritual help." At the time it frustrated and upset me; I felt abused, but obviously it was a blessing. I learned a valuable lesson: With elders like that, who needs Pharisees!

00DAD

31

What was the worst thing an "elder" ever did to you ?

by Pitchess Co-Gen in

the worst thing an "elder" ever did to me was in 2008. i was in one congregation, but i wanted to return to my home congregation because i've been reproved there twice ( once private and the last one public ).

when i came into this congregation in 2007 i thought i was going to move up the food chain ( this congregation was full of older people, so i thought i would move up faster ).

but i got into some trouble in the congregation.

00DAD

An elder once told me that if we were still under the Mosaic Law that they'd take me outside and stone me to death.

I reminded him that we are under the Law of the Christ and that he might want to take a glance at John 8:1-11.

BTW, this lovely bit of "spiritual shepherding" from said elder was in direct response to my request for help. I included in my request for help a reference to the parable of the Prodigal Son. Now I've read the account of the Prodigal Son hundreds of times. I never noticed the Father saying to his returning son anything about "taking him outside and stoning him to death."

I must've missed it.

00DAD

PS - In case you were wondering, the elder did not appreciate me pointing out that we are under the Law of the Christ. He declined to give any "spiritual help" to me. At the time it frustrated and upset me, but obviously it was a blessing. With elders like that, who needs Pharisees!

12

What happened to the 1st century FDS

by Freeof1914 in

jw
friends

i was giving this new understanding from the annual meeting some thought and several things struck me as odd.

first and foremost the gb has now essentially set themselves up to be even superior to the twelve apostles, handpicked by jesus!

according to this new understanding the fds did not come about into existenced until 1918/19... i forget the exact year.

00DAD

Freeof1914: If the DOMESTICS were able to interpret the scriptures in the 1st century, what would prevent a domestic from interpreting correctly today?

I'd give up on the "correctly" bit. Two thousand years of history have proved that, if there is a "correct" interpretation of scripture, it's tenaciously elusive.

A good friend of mine recently quipped, "Apparently, the Bible is written in such a way that you can pretty much make it say whatever you want."

It would seem, again contrary to WT "theology," that our spiritual journey through life really is an individual thing.

Truth cannot be known absolutely. Furthermore, knowledge is not a thing that can be possessed exclusively by a single individual or a group.

Societies seem to be able to agree and a frighteningly small amount of things concerning what is right and what is wrong.

For myself I can offer this, when I was an über-Elder, I was SURE that what I new was true and right. And yet somehow I was always uptight.

Now I'm only sure that I don't really know what I believe. I'm not even sure I know the right questions to ask. Oddly I'm so much more comfortable and at ease with it.

Your mileage may vary!

00DAD

12

What happened to the 1st century FDS

by Freeof1914 in

jw
friends

i was giving this new understanding from the annual meeting some thought and several things struck me as odd.

first and foremost the gb has now essentially set themselves up to be even superior to the twelve apostles, handpicked by jesus!

according to this new understanding the fds did not come about into existenced until 1918/19... i forget the exact year.

00DAD

They all died.

Ok, enough of the snarkiness.

Your basic problem is this: You are trying to make sense out of nonsense.

There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL that the "Nu-Lite TM " from the WTBTS regarding the FDS/GB relationship can be supported by an exegetical examination of the scripture. Seriously, it doesn't even make sense within the framework of what I'll loosely call WT "Theology."

It's internallly inconsistent and inherently illogical within itself. It contradicts 100 years of JW/WT history and teaching. It is contrary to basic logic.

This should be the doctrinal change that gets every thinking JW up out of there seats in revolt shouting:

"No way. I cannot accept this heresy! Why should I follow a bunch of guys that have been wrong about their own identity for the last 93 years!!!"

But not only are there not any raised voices in any Kingdom Halls denouncing this ridiculous idea, generally the sheep are contentedly bleating in the most happifying way, "That's what I already believed!"

I like to think I'm a smart guy, but sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake. Years, sorry, decades of cult indoctrination take a while to overcome.

This change is the one that finally convinced me that doctrine has nothing to do with it. It actually doesn't matter what the WTBTS teaches on any subject. Once they have a mind captive to their concepts, that mind will happily follow them down any yellow-, blue-, green-, chartreuse- or ruby-redbrick road where ever they dictate.

After all, this is "Jehovah's Spirit Directed Organization! Where else would you go?"

The illustration of the Faithful and Discreet Slave was a parable meant to provoke an individual to examine their inner motivations and spirtuality. Nothing more.

You are completely free to examine and interpret the Scriptures on your own. But now you don't need the WTBTS anymore. That tends to piss them off. They get cranky. Remember, these are they guys that brought you, "Listen, Obey and Be Blessed!"

00DAD

34

Just a quick update

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

jw
friends

i have been inactice now for about 4 months.

i keep getting visit from elders and well meaning ministerial servants.

i went back to two meetings about two weeks ago.

00DAD

MsGrowingGirl20: i'm asking myself--Maybe he/she is a jw? But no they're not. They're just genuinely nice.

Yeah, isn't it wonderful! "Worldly People" are actually nice. How can that be? It's just another example of WT lies and conditioning.

Another thought on your indecisiveness, remember when you're a Kool-aid drinking JW you are taught to let the WT make all your decisions, at least all the important ones:

Who you can and can't be friends with
Who you can and can't marry
Where you can and can't work
How much education you can and can't have
What books you can and can't read
What movies and tv shows you can and can't watch
What music you can and can't listen to
What kinds of clothes you can and can't wear
How much make-up you can and can't wear
How much recreation you should and shouldn't have
How much alcohol you can and can't drink
What you should and shouldn't do on vacation

Look there's a reason the Society's latest DVD for kiddies is NOT called, "Learn to Think Critically and Be Blessed!"

No, it's "Listen, Obey and Be Blessed!"

You have been systematically trained to NOT think for yourself.

Now you have to unlearn that.

It's scary at first. I like'd what wha happened said about doing things and waiting for a bomb to go off. Every time it doesn't just further proves how wrong the WT is.

00DAD

34

Just a quick update

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

jw
friends

i have been inactice now for about 4 months.

i keep getting visit from elders and well meaning ministerial servants.

i went back to two meetings about two weeks ago.

00DAD

MsGrowingGirl20: WOW! When i read your comments....i feel so hyped up too just get out from there....man...when will this indecisiveness go away

Indecisiveness will leave you when you know what you really want.

I see LeavingWT recommended you read one of Steven Hassan's books. I'd recommend the second one, Releasing the Bonds.

When you read it, you'll learn that the feelings of confusion and indecision you are experiencing are a result of very carefully cultivated phobias instilled in you by the mental manipulation of the WTBTS.

BTW, the subtitle of Hassan's book is intriguing:

Empowering People to Think for Themselves

Best wishes,

00DAD