Posts by cedars

64

Crisis of Conscience - The Movie

by cedars in

i know... how cool would that be??!.

having just commented on the post by trailerfitter about the situation with his wife, and how i have personally found the book crisis of conscience by ray franz to be the perfect antidote to the society's perception of itself as being god's earthly organisation, the thought occurred to me: what if there was a movie about ray franz and his life?

obviously the society would be in uproar, and letters would be read out to all congregations all over the world not to go and see it, but just imagine!

cedars

Gayle - I agree that it would be a challenge to turn it into a screenplay that people could understand or relate to, but your "Firm" concept fits my idea, and I think you could run further with that than you suggest. I was actually thinking about how you would make it into a compelling film, but when you think about it hard enough, all of the elements are there. For example - how shocking do you think it would be for outsiders to see the portrayal of a group of men sat in a brooklyn office holding weekly meetings where they discuss intimate aspects about people's lives, i.e. stance on oral sex, homosexual adultery etc - the decisions of which impact on millions. There is also the power struggle where Knorr tries to cling on to absolute control but loses due to a series of events. I agree that Franz was a quiet and humble man, but I think an actor like Damon could portray these qualities in a way that is engaging.

You also have Franz's friend (can't think of his name now) who ferries people to and from the airport, and the truth is his life. Franz befriends him and they begin to have conversations together that contradict the society's teachings, however his friend is among those embroiled in the witch hunt and thrown out of the organisation while Franz is on his leave of absence. There's the undercover intrigue of the witch hunt itself, and the absurd way in which he was disfellowshipped for eating a meal with a disassociated person. The "riches to rags" story of moving from a plush bethel suite into a caravan on someone's land and doing manual labour in his 60s. You could bring things forward to the writing of the book and a form of reconciliation with the lies he was helping to spread while in the governing body, and the putting right of those wrongs (to an extent) with his book.

I'm not saying it would be easy, and it would require ALOT of thought and work. But just imagine the impact it would have it was ever made, and became a popular if controversial movie...

64

Crisis of Conscience - The Movie

by cedars in

i know... how cool would that be??!.

having just commented on the post by trailerfitter about the situation with his wife, and how i have personally found the book crisis of conscience by ray franz to be the perfect antidote to the society's perception of itself as being god's earthly organisation, the thought occurred to me: what if there was a movie about ray franz and his life?

obviously the society would be in uproar, and letters would be read out to all congregations all over the world not to go and see it, but just imagine!

cedars

So far I've got Hanks down to play Fred Franz, and Patrick Stewart to play Henschel, but I'm always open to suggestions for these or other roles.

I can see a fascinating dynamic unravelling between the "old school" of Uncle Fred, wanting to keep things going from old times, and the younger more merciful and forward-thinking Ray, who struggles to grasp the backward and self-preservational thinking of his peers.

Obviously I wouldn't expect an "all star cast", but it would be fantastic to get some accomplished actors to play the main roles, and its fun to think who would play who, even if it never happens.

I've never written a screenplay before, but I enjoy writing and I will be ordering the book shortly (I've already read it online but I plan to buy a hardcopy, partly to support Ray's widow), so I can always begin the process of gathering material etc and see where it leads. I do think a film would be an extremely potent way of increasing awareness of both the book and the man among witnesses. Most witnesses, to my knowledge, don't know about it at all, or what they have heard is just rumour with a negative spin on it.

64

Crisis of Conscience - The Movie

by cedars in

i know... how cool would that be??!.

having just commented on the post by trailerfitter about the situation with his wife, and how i have personally found the book crisis of conscience by ray franz to be the perfect antidote to the society's perception of itself as being god's earthly organisation, the thought occurred to me: what if there was a movie about ray franz and his life?

obviously the society would be in uproar, and letters would be read out to all congregations all over the world not to go and see it, but just imagine!

cedars

My wife also suggests Tom Hanks as Ray, maybe he would be my number 2 choice. Or maybe Hanks could play Fred Franz? Hmmm.

Mrs cedars has also thrown up Mark Wahlberg's name, to which I retorted "but he's too street!" Mind you, there is a resemblance...

Mark Wahlberg

Still no offers for my screenplay co-writer?!

64

Crisis of Conscience - The Movie

by cedars in

i know... how cool would that be??!.

having just commented on the post by trailerfitter about the situation with his wife, and how i have personally found the book crisis of conscience by ray franz to be the perfect antidote to the society's perception of itself as being god's earthly organisation, the thought occurred to me: what if there was a movie about ray franz and his life?

obviously the society would be in uproar, and letters would be read out to all congregations all over the world not to go and see it, but just imagine!

cedars

I always think of Mr Bacon as looking a bit evil. Damon would definitely be my choice and is extremely versatile, he even has similar eyes, don't you think?

64

Crisis of Conscience - The Movie

by cedars in

i know... how cool would that be??!.

having just commented on the post by trailerfitter about the situation with his wife, and how i have personally found the book crisis of conscience by ray franz to be the perfect antidote to the society's perception of itself as being god's earthly organisation, the thought occurred to me: what if there was a movie about ray franz and his life?

obviously the society would be in uproar, and letters would be read out to all congregations all over the world not to go and see it, but just imagine!

cedars

I know... how cool would that be??!

Having just commented on the post by Trailerfitter about the situation with his wife, and how I have personally found the book Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz to be the perfect antidote to the Society's perception of itself as being God's earthly organisation, the thought occurred to me: what if there was a MOVIE about Ray Franz and his life? Obviously the Society would be in uproar, and letters would be read out to all congregations all over the world not to go and see it, but just imagine! Even the most hardened witness would atleast be tempted to sneak a peak and see what all the fuss was about.

The film would cover the period in his life from when he was serving in the Dominican Republic right through to his death, and Cynthia would be consulted on all aspects of the film, including whether a film should me made at all. I personally think the man is a legend, and his courageous stand would inspire millions, as indeed it already is doing.

So far I can see Matt Damon in the role of Ray Franz, any other ideas for supporting cast? Obviously Patrick Stewart would play Milton Henschel.

Does anybody fancy co-authoring the screenplay?

12

Watchtower teaching have all the bases covered?

by trailerfitter in

i am not sure if you are aware of the proposals by pastor micheal stahl who wants to get a register of atheists started so they activities like boycotting their businesses can be engaged in.

i mensioned this to my jw wife who already who i am trying to show that the wt policies are just a nutty as other american religious influences however she just retored that this is the sign of the end because there is a war going on.

i cannot get through to her and everything goes back to her newly found belief being the only true one.

cedars

It sounds a bit cliched, but the best possible way I can think of for anyone to realise that Jehovah's Witnesses are just another flawed human organisation with ulterior motives (most notably, 'self-preservation') is to read the book Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz. I was already wavering in my convictions before reading the book, but Ray's observations as a former Governing Body member left me with absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the Governing Body are nothing more than the Board of a major corporation making ridiculous decisions with their own interests and the continuity of the organization at heart.

She will initially reject this book, as will all Witnesses, as 'apostate propaganda'. However, if you can successfully get her to read ATLEAST the first chapter, or even better, the FINAL chapter, and ask her whether it portrays a bitter apostate with an axe to grind against the organisation and whose aim is to draw disciples away from Christ, then that might do it. You could also argue that if it really is "the truth", then the organisation has nothing to hide. Furthermore, Ray (who has since passed away) was wise enough while writing the publication to back up every single claim he makes with written evidence - he obviously knew that the Society would deny everything and dismiss it as his word against theirs. Interestingly, the Society have never openly commented on either Ray (since he left) or his book, probably because they know full well that every single word of what he said was both true and verified by hard evidence.

Let me know what you think to the above!

(In short, no they don't have all their bases covered - all they can do is try to stop people from seeing how uncovered their bases are...)

62

WT: "Don't watch news items featuring witnesses!"

by cedars in

hi everyone, yet another analysis of a recent watchtower i'm afraid.

this one's a little closer to home, as it concerns apostates.

yes - i'm referring to the forthcoming article "will you heed jehovah's clear warnings?

cedars

It's a tough one, and there's never any quick fix - but that doesn't make it altogether impossible. I think, though, that you would need an awful lot of patience, and for your wife to be an understanding and reasonable person to begin with (which I'm assuming she is). I was extremely lucky in that, on reaching my own conclusions about the society, I was able to immediately share them openly with my wife, and she more-or-less agreed with everything without putting up too much of a fight. I know it doesn't work that way for everyone, but I think with time, sound & logical reasoning, and huge amounts of time and patience - you can get there eventually.

24

WT: "Disfellowshipped teenagers = Nadab and Abihu"

by cedars in

continuing on my objective sojourn through the latest watchtower study editions, i thought i would write a few words about the article "god's rest - have you entered into it?

" taken from the july 15th watchtower.

incidentally, this watchtower is the same one that i discussed on my previous post concerning the society's latest bout of apostate-bashing.

cedars

I couldn't resist it - here's a quote similar to the one I remembered:

w884/15p.28par.13DisciplineThatCanYieldPeaceableFruit "Cutting off from the Christian congregation does not involve immediate death, so family ties continue. Thus, a man who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children. Respect for God’s judgments and the congregation’s action will move the wife and children to recognize that by his course, he altered the spiritual bond that existed between them. Yet, since his being disfellowshipped does not end their blood ties or marriage relationship, normal family affections and dealings can continue."

Translation? "Aw shucks, we're not allowed to execute wrongdoers - would be cool if we could though!"

Notice how disfellowshipped Dads are still allowed to communicate with their believing children, but not the other way around!

Here, therefore, is the society's official definition of the word "anyone":

anyone n. & pron. a person or persons who is not a child living under the roof of his parents, and/or a parent living under the same roof as his wife or children. Roofs are the main thing, and are crucial to the understanding of this word. Think 'roofs' people, they keep rain off you. Roof, roof, roof. That's the thing.

24

WT: "Disfellowshipped teenagers = Nadab and Abihu"

by cedars in

continuing on my objective sojourn through the latest watchtower study editions, i thought i would write a few words about the article "god's rest - have you entered into it?

" taken from the july 15th watchtower.

incidentally, this watchtower is the same one that i discussed on my previous post concerning the society's latest bout of apostate-bashing.

cedars

Intel - I think there is actually some article or other, I can't remember the precise reference, where they say something like "in ancient times wrongdoers/apostates/whatever were killed by the congregation, unfortunately we have our hands tied by law when it comes to doing that sort of thing in modern times" or words to that effect! Does anyone know which article i'm describing, and can maybe find the reference? My brain is too emotionally frazzled to go looking for it now. I need to sit down and breath for a while!

24

WT: "Disfellowshipped teenagers = Nadab and Abihu"

by cedars in

continuing on my objective sojourn through the latest watchtower study editions, i thought i would write a few words about the article "god's rest - have you entered into it?

" taken from the july 15th watchtower.

incidentally, this watchtower is the same one that i discussed on my previous post concerning the society's latest bout of apostate-bashing.

cedars

Thanks ziddina, it is astonishing - the lengths they will go to misapply scripture in order to insist on parents choosing loyalty to the Society over their instinctive need to support their children. It's such a shame that you can only see this once you're outside their sphere of influence. The rank-and-file will be lapping this stuff up.