https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-vjlssg3xi.
you can't help but feel sympathy for these guys.
some of the things they did will have been horrendous, but they are paying their dues to society through their incarceration.. what they don't deserve is to become mentally imprisoned to a damaging cult.. .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-VJlSsg3XI
You can't help but feel sympathy for these guys. Some of the things they did will have been horrendous, but they are paying their dues to society through their incarceration.
What they don't deserve is to become mentally imprisoned to a damaging cult.
Cedars
hi folks.
i apologize if this is old news to some, but it's news to me.. i stumbled on a comprehensive list of all the sold properties on wikipedia on this link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watch_tower_bible_and_tract_society_of_pennsylvania#brooklyn_property_sales.
it's just a mind-boggling amount of money, and useful information to have handy when talking to witness relatives.
My conversation with Eldenno has spawned a JWsurvey article. Here is a link for anyone interested... http://wp.me/p1TWXJ-RP
Cedars
i've just completed a lengthy article on the history of racism in the society's publications.
many people (including myself, until recently) aren't aware that the society's early publications were brimming with racist rhetoric, and this only calmed down as the public mood towards racism changed, most notably with the civil rights movement in the 50s/60s.. a few "headliners" from the article are:.
russell segregated blacks from whites for viewings of the photodramarussell believed that the skin of a black man would turn white during the millennial kingdomunder russell, the society's publications portrayed the black races as "degraded" and the white race as "superior"rutherford viewed the blacks as a "race of servants", and spoke of "sobering the southern negro" in an article against prohibitionunder rutherford, the golden age slammed uncle tom's cabin (a work that helped end slavery) as being "the work of satan"; the same article branded spaniards a "backwards race"rutherford accused "jewish business men" of "oppressing the peoples of many nations"in 1929 the golden age (acknowledged by the society as essentially the same magazine as the modern awake!
In a way, the belief that Armageddon is imminent is itself racist, since two thirds of the world's population in arab and asian countries are barely even aware that Witnesses exist.
The map below shows countries under ban, in which the ratio of Witnesses to population is approximately 1 in 70,000.
Even in countries that aren't under ban like Bangladesh, the eighth most populous country in the world, you will only find one Witness per 885,000 people.
If Jehovah were to unleash Armageddon tomorrow and destroy all those who have not responded to the preaching of the Witnesses, a good majority would be Arabs and Asians who have simply never been preached to.
Cedars
hi folks.
i apologize if this is old news to some, but it's news to me.. i stumbled on a comprehensive list of all the sold properties on wikipedia on this link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watch_tower_bible_and_tract_society_of_pennsylvania#brooklyn_property_sales.
it's just a mind-boggling amount of money, and useful information to have handy when talking to witness relatives.
factfinder
While magazine page count has been reduced (except for the study w and simplified language editions) this will prove to be an extremely busy year for the societies printeries!
Firstly, the simplified English version is not an "edition." For printing/circulation purposes it is considered as just another language, included in the circulation figures.
Secondly, I fail to see how this will prove to be an "extremely busy year for the societies printeries" when we have established that magazine printing is down 39% since 2005. That is a heck of a reduction in printed output.
As to Eldenno's above list, five of the new convention releases are tracts and one is a DVD. The only newly-released materials requiring any significant printing were two 32-page brochures and a book, which is fairly typical for convention releases. Eldenno was even desperate enough to include forms on his above list, such as the Theocratic Ministry School Review Answer Sheet. Again, we are not talking about an item that will challenge Wallkill's printing press unduly.
On this thread Eldenno made the assertion that magazine printing has not reduced. I went away, did some research, and proved this claim to be false. He then asserted that there are more printed items available now than at any previous point in the Society's history, again without presenting any evidence. To prove or disprove this claim, you would not only need to compare literature desk sheets between 2005 and 2013, but also the amount of printing involved per item. For reasons that should hopefully be obvious, a larger number of available items does not necessarily mean a busier printing press, since (for example) a tract does not require as much printing as a book.
If you or Eldenno want to do some research and show me some information I will gladly look into it. But I can do nothing with supposition and guesswork.
Cedars
does anyone have the new releases yet for the 2013 convention?.
.
.
Try this thread...
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/257172/1/2013-NU-4-U-New-For-You
Cedars
hi folks.
i apologize if this is old news to some, but it's news to me.. i stumbled on a comprehensive list of all the sold properties on wikipedia on this link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watch_tower_bible_and_tract_society_of_pennsylvania#brooklyn_property_sales.
it's just a mind-boggling amount of money, and useful information to have handy when talking to witness relatives.
Eldenno
Rarely have I met a Watchtower apologist who dodges arguments with such agility as you, but I will do my best to keep pace.
it looks like you are trying to say that in countries with internet there is a significant decline in publishers.
I didn't say that at all. You are putting words in my mouth, and not for the first time in this exchange. What I said was that growth in wealthy countries with internet is stagnating (flattening out), which it is. Obviously correlation does not equal causation, and there are numerous social/economic factors at play as you point out. However, it MUST be harder for Watchtower to spread its propaganda in parts of the world where people have greater access to information, and that is precisely what we see in the publisher figures.
Anyway here i have a list of some countries with high Internet penetration and the nr of publishers in 2000 and 2013.
I have no idea where you got your penetration figures from, nor do you make any effort to provide your sources. I also fail to see how Japan and South Korea could be described as "Western Internet Penetrated Countries."
Here is my own research into internet penetration versus publisher growth, and I am happy to tell you where I got all my data from.
Document with source information: http://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2012-internet-v-growth-stats.pdf
Cedars
i am moving next week to edmonton, alberta with my brother and want to delete my account.
i need some time away.
how do i delete my account for good...?.
Assumedly you want to delete your account due to privacy concerns, which is strange since you have only ever posted under a pseudonym. That being the case, why post so openly with information that can identify you?
Cedars
i am thinking of renting a house in europe from nov 2013 to feb 2014. any suggestions?
i am leaning to the south of france.
.
South of France sounds very nice. Can't argue with that!
Cedars
hi folks.
i apologize if this is old news to some, but it's news to me.. i stumbled on a comprehensive list of all the sold properties on wikipedia on this link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watch_tower_bible_and_tract_society_of_pennsylvania#brooklyn_property_sales.
it's just a mind-boggling amount of money, and useful information to have handy when talking to witness relatives.
Eldenno
Do you agree that the printing operations include more than printing watchtowers and awakes? So do magazines contain fewer pages nowadays? Yes! Does this mean that the presses are standing still? NO not at all.
That is appauling argumentation. Of course the Society prints more than simply magazines, but (1) the Society prints more magazines than anything else, and (2) magazines offer a measurable metric by which we can determine the printing demands based on the circulation figures. As I've already mentioned, you cannot compare printing, say, Bibles with printing magazines, because an average publisher only requires one Bible every few years whereas new magazines are released every month. The same is true of books and brochures.
Saying "does this mean that the presses are standing still" is a ridiculous statement. I never said the presses are standing still. You are attempting to use an exaggeration to drive home your point.
As to the "evidence" you have presented - all you have done is spam this forum with a list of new convention releases for the past 10 years. That is no proof of the volume of printing entailed by the publications, or how many publications are available in any given year. Heck, you've even included DVDs on your copy-and-paste list when the argument surrounds printing.
It seems you dismiss evidence you don't like, exaggerate the arguments of your opponents to make them appear ridiculous, and produce irrelevant information to support your assertions. Who does that remind me of?
Cedars
hi folks.
i apologize if this is old news to some, but it's news to me.. i stumbled on a comprehensive list of all the sold properties on wikipedia on this link... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watch_tower_bible_and_tract_society_of_pennsylvania#brooklyn_property_sales.
it's just a mind-boggling amount of money, and useful information to have handy when talking to witness relatives.
Eldenno
Its not my intention to start a discussion about how many pages for the Watchtower and Awake were printed in 2005 compared with how many are printed now. That is not the point.
But you said on the previous page that the Society is NOT reducing its printing operations. I have listened to your assertion, gone away and done some calculating, and can now prove that monthly magazine printing has reduced by about 37% since 2005. When faced with evidence that you are wrong, how do you respond? "That is not the point."
The question is,... is this publishing giant expanding,.. is their product line increasing,.. is their global reach becoming bigger?
Why is that now the question - just because you say it is? And no, the Society's global reach is quite clearly shrinking as evidenced by the falling number of branch offices worldwide. What you and Watchtower call "consolidation" I call "downsizing."
So everyone has to adapt to this digital age, this is also why i mentioned their website in my earlier post.
Oh without question the Society needs to adapt to the digital age - everyone does. The problem is the digital age poses more of a threat to the Society than you seem ready to admit. By encouraging people to use the internet, even if it is only to look at one website (JW.org), the Society exposes itself to the risk that a percentage of publishers will stray onto websites that tells the real truth about the organization, its dubious history, its failed prophecies and its damaging teachings.
Furthermore with reducing the nr of pages of the magazines they made it possible to print more copies in more languages without the need for additional resources.
Yes there's a flip side to everything, and the number of available languages has increased. But let's be realistic - the Society isn't reducing the amount of "spiritual food" just so it can print in more languages. Rather, the 37% reduction in monthly magazine printing is necessitated by the imbalance in contributions caused by stagnating publisher numbers in wealthy countries (with internet) and growing publisher numbers in poor countries (without).
I also stated in my previous post that more brochures and tracts are being released (all without the need for more paper, ink or energy). If you look at the total nr of published ´products´ in 2013 you will see that they did produce more stuff already than they did in previous years.
Again you make an assertion without offering any evidence. Your assertion is that the array of publications alone is greater now than it was "in previous years." Which "previous year" are you talking about? Where are your statistics? Can you quantify the number of publications on offer in that year versus the number of publications on offer now? Last time you made a baseless assertion I went to the trouble of going and doing my homework to prove you were wrong, only for you to dismiss my conclusions by saying "that is not the point." I'm therefore reticent to go through the process again with this latest claim.
If you want to argue a point, you must be prepared to back up your statement with evidence. I would suggest that the array of available printed material is similar now to the selection in 2005. If anything, certain brochures are being pulled from print to make way for new material - the "Should You Believe In The Trinity" brochure being just one example. Try ordering THAT brochure from your local literature desk. You will be in for a surprise.
So where you see a reduction or sign that there is a shortfall somewhere along the line, i just see a publishing giant that is adapting to a new digital reality with a shifted focus towards digital content and smart use of paper resources (that is printing more magazines, brochures, tracts and books with less resources)
But you overlook the fact that (1) the internet is not Watchtower's friend, and the Watchtower cannot take on the internet and win, (2) just because the Society is trying to "adapt" does not necessarily mean it is succeeding in doing so. The proof of the pudding is in the publisher numbers, which are stagnating (1.9% last year). And (3) the reduction in branches and printing operations is not in harmony with the organization's professed objectives to spread its "spiritual food at the proper time" in "all the inhabited earth." Not only is the amount of printed "spiritual food" being reduced, but the number of locations from which its dissemination can be organized is also being reduced. Evidence of God's backing? You decide.
Cedars
