Wow, looks like a good time had by all. Sorry Mrs Cedars and I couldn't be there this time. Thanks for the pics!
Cedars
Posts by cedars
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25
How does TTATT affect your marriage??
by Crazyguy injust wondering of those of you that have left or are fading and have married ones still in, how is it going, is there hope or is the marriage doomed?
wondering what are the percentages.
i'm fading fast but wife is zealous as ever and we don't talk spiritual things at all anymore.
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cedars
Crazyguy - I'm sorry to hear your wife won't discuss her beliefs with you at all anymore. I am very fortunate in that my wife was always willing to discuss things from the beginning of my fade. As a result, she is now fading with me. However, you NEED that basic level of communication.
My Dad is still inside. As with your wife, he has told me that he won't discuss the Truth with me because it is too "emotional" for him. Despite saying this, he does make "Truth-oriented" remarks now and then, doubtless in the hopes of pulling me back. Whenever he makes such comments I leap on them, but I'm frustrated by how one-sided the dialogue is in Dad's favor. He dictates the discussion and has chance to prepare for it. I can only react to what is said on the spur of the moment.
If your wife is saying absolutely NOTHING about her beliefs, I would be tempted to ask her to elaborate on why this is. If this really is the "Truth" shouldn't it stand up to the closest possible scrutiny? Or deep down does she know herself that it isn't really the Truth, and she is too afraid to find out?
I'm not telling you what to do or say. You will know your wife better than anyone and will know how to approach this. It may be that my approach would be entirely useless.
Cedars
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37
Whats the most damning of the July 15 2013 changes?
by Crazyguy ina lot of the rank and file at the meetings seem to think some of the changes make more sense but what is the most damning of the changes that may help to wake to some up.
some thing the rank and file will not first see or understand as a big deal?.
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cedars
konceptual99
Surely the argument with the F&DS is that this is a "class" and the individual members of the GB have no special consecration other than being of the 144,000.
Actually, as with the Pope, Watchtower literature has always asserted that Governing Body members are appointed by Jehovah and Christ.
*** w71 12/1 p. 727 par. 35 What Its “Right Condition” Means for Us Today ***
“The visible governing body of the Theocratic organization is and must be appointed only by Jehovah God the Supreme Ruler, and Christ Jesus the Head of His church. Its purpose is to issue directions and spiritual provisions to all God’s people. Acting in harmony with the governing body, all the Theocratic organization and its associates act in unity throughout the earth.”*** w71 12/15 p. 758 A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation ***
the governing body of the “slave” class is not appointed by any man. It is appointed by the same one who appointed the twelve apostles in the first century C.E., namely, Jesus Christ the Head of the true Christian congregation and the Lord and Master of the “faithful and discreet slave” class.*** w94 7/1 p. 22 par. 19 The Christian View of Authority ***
As in the first century, this slave is represented by a governing body of anointed Christian men to whom Christ has given the authority to make decisions and appoint other overseers.*** w01 4/15 p. 29 Do You Remember? ***
While directors of a legal corporation are voted into office by its members, the Governing Body is not appointed by any man but is appointed by Jesus Christ.Sure, it's buried deep within Watchtower literature, but (as with the doctrine of Christ's mediatorship only applying to the 144,000) it has yet to be refuted.
Cedars
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24
Look at this ...
by Old Goat inone of the authors of the soon to be published history of the watch tower's early years posted a small part of it in "rough draft.
" take a look http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/ .
if you like their work (i think its superior, even in rough draft), give them some encouragement.. .
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cedars
Interesting stuff, thanks Old Goat.
Cedars
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172
Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013
by jwleaks inchurch officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .
jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.
he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.
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cedars
Prime
People like you have absolutely no regard for the law. I've demonstrated that I do.
Though it is wrong to accuse you of crimes without evidence, you most certainly have not demonstrated a regard for the law. You support and endorse the actions of an organization that has been caught red-handed going out of its way to protect the identity and actions of pedophiles even if this means their crimes going unpunished. If this doesn't show a disregard for the law, not to mention basic human decency, I don't know what does.
Cedars
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22
JW family trying to compensate for us being "spiritually weak" through increased activity
by cedars inhi folks.
one of the things that has been most frustrating for my wife and i since beginning our fade as been the way certain family members have responded by ramping up their own involvement in the organization seemingly in a bizarre attempt to compensate for our lack of activity.. close relatives who were once doing precious little study and weren't going out of their way to attend meetings or go on the ministry are now studying every morning and busting a gut to attend "theocratic" arrangements.. it makes no sense to me, because salvation is supposed to be based on the beliefs and actions of each individual, not on those of his or her loved ones.
just what is the logic by which they think they can make things better by doing more themselves?.
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cedars
Hi folks
One of the things that has been most frustrating for my wife and I since beginning our fade as been the way certain family members have responded by ramping up their own involvement in the organization seemingly in a bizarre attempt to compensate for our lack of activity.
Close relatives who were once doing precious little study and weren't going out of their way to attend meetings or go on the ministry are now studying every morning and busting a gut to attend "theocratic" arrangements.
It makes no sense to me, because salvation is supposed to be based on the beliefs and actions of each individual, not on those of his or her loved ones. Just what is the logic by which they think they can make things better by doing more themselves?
If the aim is to set a good example, then why do they need these particular circumstances to arise in order to truly exert themselves? If it's really the truth, shouldn't they have been doing all of this before our fade began?
It's deeply frustrating and irritating, but we are getting used to it. It's just a shame because more study and meetings = more indoctrination and less opportunity to make inroads with the real truth.
I'd be interested to find out if any of you have had similar experiences.
Cedars
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56
Another non-JW reacts to Sparlock video
by cedars inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-ssv2nh0rc.
and two weeks ago i highlighted another video where sparlock helped an ex-mormon.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmesmlhydru.
though it still depresses me to think of all the young ones (including my own relatives) falling under the influence of this dangerous piece of propaganda, it's at least some small comfort that the sparlock video is backfiring so dramatically among thinking non-jws.. .
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Another non-JW reacts to Sparlock video
by cedars inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-ssv2nh0rc.
and two weeks ago i highlighted another video where sparlock helped an ex-mormon.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmesmlhydru.
though it still depresses me to think of all the young ones (including my own relatives) falling under the influence of this dangerous piece of propaganda, it's at least some small comfort that the sparlock video is backfiring so dramatically among thinking non-jws.. .
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cedars
frankiespeakin
I wonder how Caleb's mom would have reacted if the toy was Jesus instead of Sparlock the wizzard?
Pretty much anything shocks Caleb's mom - even forgetting to say "please."
Cedars
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172
Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013
by jwleaks inchurch officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .
jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.
he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.
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cedars
This is GoneAwol's scan of today's Daily Mail...
Cedars
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172
Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013
by jwleaks inchurch officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .
jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.
he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.
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cedars
GoneAwol - would you be able to scan the Daily Mail article? Web pages are great, but these stories carry more weight when you can see them in print.
If you can't post it here, email it to me at [email protected] and I will post it.
Cedars
