80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
Shutting down discussion never helps.
But apparently naming and shaming people who put a foot wrong without asking them to correct their mistake does help.
Let's hope you and I don't commit the mortal sin of posting something inaccurate on Twitter, hey? We may also get a thread named after us now the precedent is set.
Cedars
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
I'm ALL for exposing the lies and the lethal doctrines of the Watchtower but throwing out sensational headlines like this doesn't help. Facts matter.
Once unfactual, sensationalist tweet is removed so that it cannot mislead anyone...
Her tweet was inaccurate and misleading but it should NOT have been deleted - it should have been addressed and that's what I was doing.
I've now officially heard it all. It's ok for lurkers to be misled on Twitter so long as there is cannon fodder for argument and debate on JWN.
Don't SOLVE the problem - keep it on life support so we all have something to complain about!
I despair, I really do. The peanut gallery must have its peanuts.
Cedars
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
Since Simon is reduced to angry ad hominems and generalizations I will take my leave from this discussion. If there's one thing I know, it's the house always wins - and this is very much Simon's house.
For those who ARE bothered about fixing the problem, you will be pleased to know Julia has responded to my efforts to reach her and has now deleted her tweet.
Looks like I wasn't so "naive" after all.
Cedars
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
Simon
How come our opinion has to be in private and hidden but you're can be published willy nilly?
I don't recall saying people's opinions need to be private and hidden. Just that there are ways of fixing this sort of problem without the nuclear option of naming and shaming on a public forum. For example, as we speak I'm trying to get through to Julia to ask if she'll consider removing the tweet. It astonishes and disappoints me that this was not tried first.
I've tried the private email thing before and got a load of abuse and insults for my effort.
Is that a jab at me? If so, that's unfortunate. I've noticed that your idea of "abuse and insults" is not the same as mine.
Cedars
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
Simon
First, this notion that we somehow have to appear 'united' and consistent with no dissention. We don't. That's holdover cult thinking. By being willing to criticise and correct false information we gain credibility as a group
You misunderstand me.
I was pointing out that this thread seems intended first-and-foremost to criticize rather than to correct, or rectify. Names are named and fingers are pointed. No effort seems to have been made to get the misleading tweet deleted, which is easily done.
I don't think leaping to criticism without even attempting rectification is a laudible or beneficial quality for what I understand to be the shared goals of the Ex-JW community.
Cedars
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
Thanks adamah
Throughout your ramblings I missed the part where you explained how publicizing a grievance with an individual on an internet forum is preferable to sending that person an email, or in this case a private message on Twitter. If the purpose of this thread is to deride and make a public example of someone, assuming that's your thing, then it's mission accomplished. If, however, the original poster sees a misleading tweet that he wants rectified to prevent any lurkers being misled, the most effective way to do this is go to the source and get the tweet deleted, which is easily done.
Even with this avenue exhausted, I fail to see how this thread is productive or helpful apart from indulging bored individuals who like there to be no "secrets" (as you put it) regarding matters that don't really concern them. There are any number of websites, facebook posts or tweets by Ex-JWs that give wrong or misleading information about Watchtower or misrepresent apostates in some way. Do each of these also deserve a name-and-shame exposé thread? Or does the answer perhaps lie in letting lurkers use their brains and reach their own conclusions about what is credible and what isn't?
Sadly, all too many in this community much prefer moaning about Ex-JWs they have a gripe with than meaningfully engaging the true enemy, Watchtower - who no doubt laughs and rubs their hands at our internal bickering and finger-pointing. And yes, that's an achilles heel. If you don't see that, then you're at a disadvantage.
That said, it's encouraging to see that the mathematic skills of besty and slimboyfat have been engaged. It would be great if they could assist Marvin in coming up with a meaningful extrapolation, assuming this is possible from the New Zealand data alone. I would try to help myself, but maths is not my strong suit.
Cedars
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
No need to apologise Ruby, these are just general observations for everyone to hopefully take on board.
Cedars
Cranky I will grant you.... but old? Moi?!
Cedars
80+ branch davidian cult members died in waco, texas.
250,000+ #jehovahswitnesses have died refusing blood.
stop this #cult!
At the risk of getting a black eye, I will enter the fray...
Personally I think it's unfortunate that a figure of 250,000 deaths has been put forward when it cannot be supported by any meaningful data. My approach to criticizing Watchtower is that they are giving us a treasure trove of material already without any need to resort to making stuff up, and damaging our argument in the process. Marvin's research is excellent and I have quoted it on JWsurvey with a link so that people can check out the data for themselves. Even if the figure is lower than 50,000, let's say more in the region of slimboyfat's 29,000, that is still a grotesque bodycount for any cult to lay claim to. You could imagine the international uproar if 29,000 were to simultaneously die tomorrow in a cult suicide pact. But spread the carnage over many decades and nobody bats an eyelid. This information NEEDS exposure, and we shouldn't be ashamed of challenging the public to think on this issue. If people like slimboyfat want to go ahead and do their own research they should go right ahead, and I'm sure Marvin would be the last person to stand in their way.
With all that said, I'm not sure the tone of this thread sits right with me. In the course of writing for JWsurvey I have made a fair number of mistakes requiring corrections or retractions, and if each of those mistakes had been gleefully leapt upon as subjects of debate on JWN as has happened here, it would have been soul destroying. Problems like this could be sorted out with a simple email, or twitter/facebook personal message, politely saying, "I noticed you gave this information, where did you get it from? Would you mind deleting the tweet/thread/comment if it is incorrect?" Instead, all too often the nuclear option of launching a JWN discussion and naming names is pursued first.
The Ex-JW community's infighting and readiness to point fingers, which I think is very much a product of our shared cult experience, is its achilles heel - and something of which I am frankly ashamed. Solidarity and kinship is not a commodity that is as abundant as it should be for a group taking on an adversary as wily and united as the Watchtower.
Cedars
Thank you very much!
Cedars
