Posts by cedars

16

Hebrew scholars are actively correcting "mistakes" in the Bible!

by wearewatchingyouman in

jerusalem a dull-looking chart projected on the wall of a university office in jerusalem displayed a revelation that would startle many readers of the old testament: the sacred text that people revered in the past was not the same one we study today.. an ancient version of one book has an extra phrase.

another appears to have been revised to retroactively insert a prophecy after the events happened.. scholars in this out-of-the-way corner of the hebrew university campus have been quietly at work for 53 years on one of the most ambitious projects attempted in biblical studies publishing the authoritative edition of the old testament, also known as the hebrew bible, and tracking every single evolution of the text over centuries and millennia.. and it has evolved, despite deeply held beliefs to the contrary.. for many jews and christians, religion dictates that the words of the bible in the original hebrew are divine, unaltered and unalterable.. for orthodox jews, the accuracy is considered so inviolable that if a synagogue's torah scroll is found to have a minute error in a single letter, the entire scroll is unusable.. but the ongoing work of the academic detectives of the bible project, as their undertaking is known, shows that this text at the root of judaism, christianity and islam was somewhat fluid for long periods of its history, and that its transmission through the ages was messier and more human than most of us imagine.

(cont....) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44117239/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/.

cedars

This was an interesting article, thanks for highlighting it.

It's a real shame that they've been going for 53 years already, and at the current rate they won't have finished correcting the Hebrew scriptures for another 200 years! I wonder why they don't recruit a few more scholars to speed things up? Mind you, better to wait for a good job than rush things I suppose.

It's noteworthy that the current version of Jeremiah is one seventh longer than the original, and certain texts were added retroactively following their fulfilment. I wonder whether this practice was the rule rather the exception?

64

Is there a reason to remain a JW other than for family?

by cedars in

this strikes me as an important question.

in my short time on this forum it strikes me that many contributors are quite open about keeping a foot in both camps.

some are apparently even elders, serving in positions of authority within their respective congregations.

cedars

leavingwt - that is a sad story, thank you for sharing it with us. I can fully understand why family would come first. I hope you brothers are getting over their traumatic exits.

For the record (and to gravitate the discussion back towards the original question)... are there any justifiable reasons other than family?

79

Watchtower falsification of its history

by jwfacts in

i received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.

so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .

"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.

cedars

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...

64

Is there a reason to remain a JW other than for family?

by cedars in

this strikes me as an important question.

in my short time on this forum it strikes me that many contributors are quite open about keeping a foot in both camps.

some are apparently even elders, serving in positions of authority within their respective congregations.

cedars

quendi - thanks for that, I've replied.

leavingwt - I think you and quendi are basically on the same page. You are both against hypocrisy, right? I hear your scenario about an elder not refusing to give talks for fear of beginning a downward spiral, however (certainly in western lands) the stresses of the system of things and the need to provide for one's family seem to be increasingly used as reasons to be "modest" in what one is or isn't able to do as a pioneer or elder. I'm sure if an elder approached the subject at an elder's meetings and brandished 1 Tim 5:8, saying that he has too much on his plate and needs to make sure he has giving enough time for his family etc, it would all get pushed through without too many objections.

I STILL haven't heard from the elders on "Sunday Talks" who are bragging thus: "Ooooh guess what guys, I have this public talk on Sunday, what should I do??!!" Where are you guys??!!

Family can be a reason for staying in "the truth", and it could even be a reason to remain as an elder, but staying on the public speaker's list? That's optional surely. If the Mrs is giving grief that she wants you to stay on it, and how you can you be so ridiculous as to stop giving public talks, then I suppose that's understandable. If, however, the Mrs is reasonably flexible (even as a devout witness) and is interested in having you around more, I think there are ways out of it if you plan it carefully enough.

9

Why is the Youth book not on Watchtower Library?!

by cedars in

i realise this question may have been asked before, so please point me in the right direction if it has.. i've been aware for some time that the youth book isn't on the watchtower library cd-rom.

until now i've never questioned why, because i've assumed that this is simply due to the fact that it was "superseded" by the ypa book.

however, i've noticed that other books that were "superseded" are still on the cd-rom - for example, the old song book, the old school guidebook, the old family life book etc.. i remember my parents studying the red book your youth - getting the best out of it with me as a child.

cedars

Maybe that's where the confusion comes from.

At least I'm not completely losing my mind - not yet anyway.

Sorry about that everyone!

9

Why is the Youth book not on Watchtower Library?!

by cedars in

i realise this question may have been asked before, so please point me in the right direction if it has.. i've been aware for some time that the youth book isn't on the watchtower library cd-rom.

until now i've never questioned why, because i've assumed that this is simply due to the fact that it was "superseded" by the ypa book.

however, i've noticed that other books that were "superseded" are still on the cd-rom - for example, the old song book, the old school guidebook, the old family life book etc.. i remember my parents studying the red book your youth - getting the best out of it with me as a child.

cedars

Well I would read through it and check, but I don't have a copy with me at present and obviously it is no longer in print.

Perhaps a subsidiary question is - does anybody own a copy who would be willing to check?

leavingwt - as I said, there are other books that have been superseded, but they are still on the CD-ROM. Why anyone really needs to know what's in the old school guidebook is beyond me. The Aid book was likely omitted for two reasons (1) it's so darn big, and (2) according to Ray Franz it was written without a strong leaning towards established watchtower doctrine.

Madsweeney - THAT'S SO WEIRD! I could have sworn the book wasn't on my CD-ROM when I last checked. Thanks so much for showing me the error of my ways. Thank goodness for these forums, or I would have carried on thinking it wasn't there!

Discussion closed!

9

Why is the Youth book not on Watchtower Library?!

by cedars in

i realise this question may have been asked before, so please point me in the right direction if it has.. i've been aware for some time that the youth book isn't on the watchtower library cd-rom.

until now i've never questioned why, because i've assumed that this is simply due to the fact that it was "superseded" by the ypa book.

however, i've noticed that other books that were "superseded" are still on the cd-rom - for example, the old song book, the old school guidebook, the old family life book etc.. i remember my parents studying the red book your youth - getting the best out of it with me as a child.

cedars

Hi everyone. I realise this question may have been asked before, so please point me in the right direction if it has.

I've been aware for some time that the Youth book isn't on the Watchtower Library CD-ROM. Until now I've never questioned why, because I've assumed that this is simply due to the fact that it was "superseded" by the YPA book. However, I've noticed that other books that were "superseded" are still on the CD-ROM - for example, the old song book, the old school guidebook, the old family life book etc.

I remember my parents studying the red book Your Youth - Getting the Best Out Of It with me as a child. What is it about this book that makes it so different, and not worthy of a place on the CD-ROM? Answers please!

64

Is there a reason to remain a JW other than for family?

by cedars in

this strikes me as an important question.

in my short time on this forum it strikes me that many contributors are quite open about keeping a foot in both camps.

some are apparently even elders, serving in positions of authority within their respective congregations.

cedars

I think what Quendi is saying is that, regardless of what people's reasons are for remaining connected to the organization in some way "i.e. fading", there is no excuse for remaining in positions of authority and thereby allowing the society to prosper even though they know it to be corrupt and false.

I think there seems to be a consensus that this sort of thing is wrong (please let me know if I've misread this), but we have yet to hear from any elders who are doing this as to their reasons why their actions are right and proper. So far they are notable by their absence on this thread, which is a shame! This is the perfect platform for them to justify their apparent double standards.

Maybe if anyone out there knows an elder who knows the society to be wrong and yet continues to give public talks etc, they could invite them to offer their opinions here? I'm sure we would all be interested to hear their side. I asked some pretty direct questions on the "Sunday Talk" forum, but so far there has been no response.

64

Is there a reason to remain a JW other than for family?

by cedars in

this strikes me as an important question.

in my short time on this forum it strikes me that many contributors are quite open about keeping a foot in both camps.

some are apparently even elders, serving in positions of authority within their respective congregations.

cedars

No, what's it called? I'll be ordering a few books shortly so I might look it up.

64

Is there a reason to remain a JW other than for family?

by cedars in

this strikes me as an important question.

in my short time on this forum it strikes me that many contributors are quite open about keeping a foot in both camps.

some are apparently even elders, serving in positions of authority within their respective congregations.

cedars

Quendi, thanks for your comments. It's admirable that you are so resolute in the need to uphold one's personal integrity. That's always a noble attitude. I confess to being a bit perplexed with what I saw on the "Sunday Talk" thread, namely elders working "undercover" with a masterplan to bow out in a blaze of glory and take thousands with them. It was almost like they were bragging at their "undercover" status. Maybe they think they're James Bond or something, I don't know. I notice that my questions on the merits of this strategy (as of this moment) have gone unanswered.

leavingwt, I am always sympathetic to those who feel trapped in the organisation. I'm most interested in why they feel trapped. The family issue is the one I feel most personal sympathy towards, because that is the one that has influenced me most personally. In many ways, it is like having your family held hostage by a faceless maniac. What perplexes me are those that don't have that issue for whatever reason, but who continue to pretend they are witnesses regardless. One reason that's already been proffered is the desire to continue in Christian worship in the absence of any discernible Christian congregation on Earth today, although I can't help but wonder whether such people have bought into the need to adhere oneself to an "organisation" and not simply live as a righteous man and worshipper of God independently.

I understand that whether these reasons are justifiable or not is by no means a black and white issue, and is a matter of opinion, but that doesn't mean that opinions can't be explained and supported by reasoned argument. By means of this thread I've already learned some intriguing things about the thought-processes of individuals who go on the ministry without supporting the FDS. Though I don't think this is necessarily healthy or advisable, it helps to have these things explained and see why people do what they do.

I'd love to hear from some of the elders out there who AREN'T restrained by the family issue and see nothing wrong with extolling the society's teachings even though they know the real truth.