Posts by cedars

46

QFR: "Warning - memorial partakers might be loonies!"

by cedars in

as part of my objective analysis of four month's worth of watchtower study editions from july to october 2011, i found the following gem from a question from readers, on page 22 of the august 15 magazine.

the question under discussion was "how are we to understand the figures in the annual service report?

", and it goes on to provide an idiot's guide to what the figures mean, including the following.... "memorial partakers.

cedars

AGuest - not that you listen to a word I say and think about it, but for what it's worth:

Perhaps YOUR zeal has caused your eyes to deceive you?

Nope, my zeal is to expose flawed teaching, your zeal is to replace it with your ideas. My eyes aren't deceiving me at all any longer, and I take exception to your claim that they are.

But is it right to expose those teachings with more false teachings??

I'm not exposing their teachings with more false teachings, because I'm not trying to teach anyone anything! You're the one who's trying to do that. I'm just clearly demonstrating how the society's "logic" works against itself, and is self-condemnatory! Sheesh, it's like talking to a brick wall. Also, if your arguments make so much sense, please can you make them a little more succinctly? Not that you should need to propound any truths or correct the society's teachings (or apparently my own "false teachings") here because the purpose of this thread is to show how the doctrine is flawed, not necessarily replace it with fresh doctrine. Everyone can do that for themselves, in the same way that evidently you did.

May the force be with you my brother... lots of nice fluffy things.... keep the faith and all that....

46

QFR: "Warning - memorial partakers might be loonies!"

by cedars in

as part of my objective analysis of four month's worth of watchtower study editions from july to october 2011, i found the following gem from a question from readers, on page 22 of the august 15 magazine.

the question under discussion was "how are we to understand the figures in the annual service report?

", and it goes on to provide an idiot's guide to what the figures mean, including the following.... "memorial partakers.

cedars

I am not trying to fight or argue with you, but only expound the way of these things... more accurately to you. I hope you can receive that.

I know you're not arguing with me, and I'm not arguing with you, but you're completely missing the point. You're seizing this thread as an opportunity to give us all a lecture on what it means to be anointed, but what the thread is really about is what the Society thinks it means to be anointed and how their views on this subject are self contradictory. If you want to conduct a lecture on being anointed, born again, given the heavenly call, whatever you want to call it - maybe you should start a fresh thread? Just an idea...

Peace out, take it easy bro, all that stuff.

46

QFR: "Warning - memorial partakers might be loonies!"

by cedars in

as part of my objective analysis of four month's worth of watchtower study editions from july to october 2011, i found the following gem from a question from readers, on page 22 of the august 15 magazine.

the question under discussion was "how are we to understand the figures in the annual service report?

", and it goes on to provide an idiot's guide to what the figures mean, including the following.... "memorial partakers.

cedars

Hello AGuest, peace be with you and all that!

I think the confusion lies in your attempt to reconcile what the Society teach with what is actually in the bible (or your interpretation of it). Last time I checked, this was a forum discussing witness beliefs, and the point that this thread makes is to expose the fact that the Society's teachings regarding the anointed are self-contradictory. Arguments are made that unilaterally undermine the claims of certain memorial partakers, without any acknowledgement that the same arguments (i.e. being mental/emotionally compromised) could be levelled against the Governing Body.

We would be here all day if we were trying to compare what the Society says with what is actually in the bible!

Finally, being humble has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Saul of Tarsus certainly was NOT a humble young man. Nor was Peter or a couple/few of the other disciples.

It's like you're trying to apply the Star Wars storyline to the Star Trek universe. Obviously we all 'get it' that, according to the bible (or at least your interpretation of it), all footstep followers of Christ and believers in him are anointed by holy spirit. The point was made, and I consider it a valid one, that individial members of the remnant when questioned will give a vague explanation of how they know they are anointed, something along the lines of "Because I just am!" This raises questions as to whether, according to the Society definition, being anointed is simply a case of deciding you are for yourself, and therefore (ironically) evidence of an inflated ego over and above your fellow worshippers. Haughtiness is not considered a desirable quality for those taking the lead.

Bless you, slave to Christ and so on... live long and prosper, etc.

46

QFR: "Warning - memorial partakers might be loonies!"

by cedars in

as part of my objective analysis of four month's worth of watchtower study editions from july to october 2011, i found the following gem from a question from readers, on page 22 of the august 15 magazine.

the question under discussion was "how are we to understand the figures in the annual service report?

", and it goes on to provide an idiot's guide to what the figures mean, including the following.... "memorial partakers.

cedars

It is a paradox that we are constantly being reminded to humbly submit to the direction of the FDS by those who, by their self-proclaimed anointed status and subsequent decision to accept elevation to the exalted but diminutive ranks of the Governing Body, are manifestly the least humble of all witnesses.

46

QFR: "Warning - memorial partakers might be loonies!"

by cedars in

as part of my objective analysis of four month's worth of watchtower study editions from july to october 2011, i found the following gem from a question from readers, on page 22 of the august 15 magazine.

the question under discussion was "how are we to understand the figures in the annual service report?

", and it goes on to provide an idiot's guide to what the figures mean, including the following.... "memorial partakers.

cedars

AGuest - thanks for your input. Obviously many of these points are moot in relation to what should actually be happening. The bible doesn't prescribe a "two-tier" system of christianity, this has only been super-imposed onto the bible by the society.

First, ALL were partakers at the time of Paul's words, so there was no differentiation between 'sheep'. Eating and drinking "unworthily" had absolutely NOTHING to do with that: it had to do with whether one was "clean" at the time of partaking... or not. Meaning, such one had to scrutinize the man they were ON THE INSIDE ("cleanse the inside of the cup")... or risk eating/drinking unworthily.

I agree, although obviously hypothetically speaking the scripture about unworthiness must also extend to any who partake of the emblems "unworthily" insofar as they claim to be of the anointed when they aren't. OBVIOUSLY the original scripture wasn't written with two-tier christianity in mind, but if you are going to super-impose this idea and stick by this interpretation, you should also grasp and enforce the concept of 'partaking unworthily' which you would obviously be doing if you were partaking when you shouldn't be. Originally this scripture was intended for other reasons, but the concept holds true in the Society's application. Make sense?

Interestingly, we now have 4-tier christianity:

Anointed members of the governing body
Anointed members who might not be crazy
Anointed members who might be crazy
Great crowd

46

QFR: "Warning - memorial partakers might be loonies!"

by cedars in

as part of my objective analysis of four month's worth of watchtower study editions from july to october 2011, i found the following gem from a question from readers, on page 22 of the august 15 magazine.

the question under discussion was "how are we to understand the figures in the annual service report?

", and it goes on to provide an idiot's guide to what the figures mean, including the following.... "memorial partakers.

cedars

Thanks stillstuckcruz for those kind words - I am fairly new to this site but I love getting feedback to things I find, some of which I have been sat on for some time.

Ah yes, the old "I'm anointed because I say so" argument! Obviously none of the above questions would wash with a die-hard publisher who has had his/her powers of independent reasoning eroded over time. God apparently needs a Governing Body to accomplish his purpose (even though that phrase appears nowhere in the bible) so he must obviously have manipulated the selection process for those currently serving. Hopefully though, if any have started down the course of questioning things, questions such as those above will help them to feel vindicated and pursue things further. There's only so much you can do for people who 'want' to be taken in by it all.

46

QFR: "Warning - memorial partakers might be loonies!"

by cedars in

as part of my objective analysis of four month's worth of watchtower study editions from july to october 2011, i found the following gem from a question from readers, on page 22 of the august 15 magazine.

the question under discussion was "how are we to understand the figures in the annual service report?

", and it goes on to provide an idiot's guide to what the figures mean, including the following.... "memorial partakers.

cedars

Good point, I feel it's almost inevitable that they will stop counting altogether soon, or at least publishing the results - especially if the number continues to increase. What shocks me is the unexplained aversion to finding out who the partakers are, and even openly trying to discredit them. Basically the only legitimate members of the anointed are the Governing Body - and the other 11,190 may well be regarded as phoney.

119

The Makeweight Scenario

by cedars in

i just thought i'd share something if you don't mind.. my conviction in the legitimacy of the society was slowy eroded over a number of years simply by reading the publications and becoming increasingly frustrated at how little the interpretations of prophecy and scripture made sense, added to the complete ineptitude of senior figures in the organisation.. for me, the "glue" that kept everything roughly held together into something that can be called a "faith" was the concept of "increasing light", which as you all know is the principle employed by the society to excuse any mistakes or backtracks that are made.

they routinely flog proverbs 4:18, which as we all know has nothing to do with gradual refinements in understanding when read in context.

regardless of this, the concept managed to keep me loyal to the organisation for quite some time, as i was too fearful to bring it under direct scrutiny.

cedars

Thanks N.drew for that trenchant observation!

46

QFR: "Warning - memorial partakers might be loonies!"

by cedars in

as part of my objective analysis of four month's worth of watchtower study editions from july to october 2011, i found the following gem from a question from readers, on page 22 of the august 15 magazine.

the question under discussion was "how are we to understand the figures in the annual service report?

", and it goes on to provide an idiot's guide to what the figures mean, including the following.... "memorial partakers.

cedars

Indeed - no instructions are given in this article as to the ramifications of partaking unworthily, which inevitably applies to any baptised publisher who partakes whilst being fully aware of the difference between a member of the other sheep and the little flock. It's almost implied that to do so would be of little consequence, despite Paul's dire warning in the scripture quoted above.

17

Stephen Lett: "Pray for us to be faithful and discreet!"

by cedars in

out of interest, i have just been scanning through the four latest available watchtower study articles (july thru october 2011) and in doing so i am reading them objectively for the first time.

i have been shocked, outraged and amazed by some of my findings.. as one example, take the article "a history-making meeting" from the august 15th watchtower, 2011. the article, beginning on page 18, discusses the 126th annual meeting of the watch tower bible and tract society, and begins with a summary of the opening talk by governing body member stephen lett.

it concludes the highlights of his talk in this way:.

cedars

Hi Quendi - thanks, I agree that you don't see these things as an obedient publisher until you gain the ability to read the publications objectively - that's why my little project to review the last few Watchtower study editions has been such an eye-opener!

By the way, I will be in touch with you again shortly!