Posts by cedars

13

WT: "A sport is objectionable if too many people like it"

by cedars in

if i may, i would like to offer another glimpse into the strange minds of the writers of the more recent watchtower study editions, this time on the topic of sport.. no doubt like many of you, i enjoy playing sport because (apart from anything else) regular exercise stops me from becoming fat and unhealthy.

during my time as an active witness, i often had the opportunity to play sports with other brothers, although i became increasingly frustrated that this was not (in my case) organised on a more regular basis by those in my congregation; rather, games of my particular sport were organised less and less frequently until they became virtually non-existant.. things have improved considerably since i became inactive and was improperly shunned by those 'brothers' i used to play sport with, because i have begun playing my particular sport with so-called "worldly" people in my local community.

apart from allowing me to get back into some semblance of shape (thereby keeping mrs cedars happy) i am also able to keep in touch with my neighbours and be more sociable with those who live near me.

cedars

You make a good point WTW, popular things seem to get denounced by default, even if (in the case of sport) they are beneficial and healthy. It just disturbs me that the reasoning provided is SO backwards and jaw-droppingly anal. I'm a firm believer that you can make ANYTHING sound or look bad if you write about it a certain way. I know this magazine article, like the one on apostates, will get lapped up by the publishers at the WT study two weeks from now, and a new generation of young witnesses will be pressurised into avoiding all sports and becoming couch potatos.

12

Watchtower teaching have all the bases covered?

by trailerfitter in

i am not sure if you are aware of the proposals by pastor micheal stahl who wants to get a register of atheists started so they activities like boycotting their businesses can be engaged in.

i mensioned this to my jw wife who already who i am trying to show that the wt policies are just a nutty as other american religious influences however she just retored that this is the sign of the end because there is a war going on.

i cannot get through to her and everything goes back to her newly found belief being the only true one.

cedars

Well fortunately for you, you conveniently slip outside the Society's category of mentally diseased, because you are simply a non-believer or ignoramus. To be mentally diseased, you need to be an apostate - namely someone who has been part of the organisation and then left. Obviously, from the point of view of most witnesses, you are mentally-diseased just for having visited and contributed towards this forum, but thankfully there is nothing to legislate against your exact scenario in print. You're therefore in a great position to offer kindly and well-meaning support to your wife - but try to do so in a way that can't be described as "witness bashing". Remember, they may call us mentally-diseased and this or that, but as soon as we sink to their level, we fulfil their stereotype of us.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, have you considered buying her Crisis of Conscience? Even if she read just the FOREWORD, this would be enough to convince any reasonable person that the book was written with no malicious intent. Here is an extract (excuse the strange formatting):

Life is uncertain and when a man dies what he knows dies along with him— unless he passes it on while still in life. What this book contains is written out of a sense of obligation to people whom I

sincerely love. In all good conscience I can say that its aim is to help and not to hurt. If some of what is presented is painful to read, it was als o painful to write. It is hoped that the reader will recognize that the search for truth need never be destructive of faith, that every effort to know and uphold truth will, instead, strengthen the basis for true faith. What those reading this information will do with it is, of course, their own decision. Atleast it will have been said, and a moral responsibility will have been met. - Ray Franz

24

WT: "Disfellowshipped teenagers = Nadab and Abihu"

by cedars in

continuing on my objective sojourn through the latest watchtower study editions, i thought i would write a few words about the article "god's rest - have you entered into it?

" taken from the july 15th watchtower.

incidentally, this watchtower is the same one that i discussed on my previous post concerning the society's latest bout of apostate-bashing.

cedars

Why oh WHY does an Organization have to make a point to crush natural parental affection?

The sad part is, it is all about self-preservation. The more they can limit any contact between those who have LEFT the organization, and those who are IN the organization, the better the chance that nobody within will learn the truth that everybody on the outside knows - that this is just another flawed human organization. The organization therefore protects itself from external contamination.

I genuinely feel for you, and I'm almost sorry to have written something that would make you cry. If it makes any difference, I got quite emotional writing it. I've only recently begun reading Watchtower articles from an objective perspective, and it now infuriates me to see how self-contradictory and incomprehensible much of the logic and reasoning is. The really sad thing is, I was buying into this stuff until only relatively recently, so I can't condemn anyone for believing it.

I hope you can find some comfort in knowing that you are not alone in your feelings of anger and hopelesness. You have many friends on this site who desperately want you to succeed in not allowing the organization to crush you, even if it has temporarily succeeded in breaking up your family.

45

Am I on thin ice with my friend?

by cedars in

i'm a former mts graduate, and it's a long story but i recently became inactive after realising it was all nonsense.

the problem is, i've noticed that my mts background makes it almost impossible for people to accept my new status as an "inactive" one.

people think that, given the amount of knowledge i have, there is surely no excuse for me to reach this preposterous decision.. a friend from my mts recently began emailing me to find out my reasons.

cedars

A quick update... having not heard anything from my friend in nearly two weeks I have decided to email him requesting that he deletes my emails and forgets about everything. I have mentioned depression and the fact that I may have allowed this to manifest itself in overly critical behaviour. I have thanked him for his concern, but told him that there is little point entering a protracted debate over what are essentially just matters of faith, and the last thing I want is to undermine his excellent work in Jehovah's organisation (or words to that effect).

I sent it yesterday and still no reply, I'll keep you posted.

64

Crisis of Conscience - The Movie

by cedars in

i know... how cool would that be??!.

having just commented on the post by trailerfitter about the situation with his wife, and how i have personally found the book crisis of conscience by ray franz to be the perfect antidote to the society's perception of itself as being god's earthly organisation, the thought occurred to me: what if there was a movie about ray franz and his life?

obviously the society would be in uproar, and letters would be read out to all congregations all over the world not to go and see it, but just imagine!

cedars

Thanks RayPublisher, consider yourself PM'd!

24

WT: "Disfellowshipped teenagers = Nadab and Abihu"

by cedars in

continuing on my objective sojourn through the latest watchtower study editions, i thought i would write a few words about the article "god's rest - have you entered into it?

" taken from the july 15th watchtower.

incidentally, this watchtower is the same one that i discussed on my previous post concerning the society's latest bout of apostate-bashing.

cedars

Hi ziddina - thanks! I haven't yet been quite so emotional when writing a post as this one, because the disfellowshipping policy (to my mind) is the main reason why many of us are so screwed up, and to read such blatantly moronic reasoning makes me quiver with rage!

I would love to post actual images of the Watchtower pages, but my hands are tied somewhat in that I am afraid of actually hosting the images, which I would need to do in order to post them. Make sense? If I host the images, I could potentially leave a trail back to me, and I am not currently ready to start doing that. However, if you drop a message to jwfacts, maybe he would oblige? Or you could do so yourself? Wish I could be of more help.

62

WT: "Don't watch news items featuring witnesses!"

by cedars in

hi everyone, yet another analysis of a recent watchtower i'm afraid.

this one's a little closer to home, as it concerns apostates.

yes - i'm referring to the forthcoming article "will you heed jehovah's clear warnings?

cedars

Zid, I would definitely support you as a pantsuit wearing member of the governing body, so long as you remembered to take off the bird helmet. I can't see you maneuvering your way onto the body with a seemingly semi-avian anatomy. The Governing Body have some strange ideas, but they're not THAT weird. Besides, it would look strange on the group photos.

64

Crisis of Conscience - The Movie

by cedars in

i know... how cool would that be??!.

having just commented on the post by trailerfitter about the situation with his wife, and how i have personally found the book crisis of conscience by ray franz to be the perfect antidote to the society's perception of itself as being god's earthly organisation, the thought occurred to me: what if there was a movie about ray franz and his life?

obviously the society would be in uproar, and letters would be read out to all congregations all over the world not to go and see it, but just imagine!

cedars

No Room For George - I honestly appreciate your input, and I'm sorry if this thread makes you feel uncomfortable. Ray's thoughts, and those of his dear widow, would obviously need to be taken into consideration. We are talking about a man who declined an interview from Time magazine, would he really want a film made about him? It's a good point. However, I think (only if the idea gained momentum) it would at least be worth running past Cynthia to see what she would say. Don't forget that, if it were a success, a movie like that would work wonders for increasing awareness of the book among witnesses, even if they were banned from watching it.

Also, I know it's easy for us, as either witnesses or former-witnesses, to assume that such a film would be a success. I agree (to an extent) that most non-witnesses don't give two hoots about JWs. However, it is an intriguing story about a little-known organisation that everyone is familiar with either sub-consciously or otherwise (after all, everyone gets a visit from JWs at some point or other). I think there are elements of the film that, if portrayed correctly, could be deeply compelling. The very fact that a group of men sit in an office in Brooklyn every Wednesday and make decisions that effect the lives of millions on an intimate level is virtually unknown to most, and if skillfully portrayed could add a fascinating element.

What I'm saying is, it's neither a foregone conclusion that this would end up as a film, nor would it be an easy film to produce, but in the meantime what's the harm in having a bit of banter about who would play who?

Edward Norton, by the way, is an inspired choice.

Here is my list of actors who should NOT appear in the film: Ben Affleck, Jackie Chan, Bruce Willis, Eddie Murphy, Arnold Schwarznegger, Steven Seagal... (to be updated)

13

WT: "A sport is objectionable if too many people like it"

by cedars in

if i may, i would like to offer another glimpse into the strange minds of the writers of the more recent watchtower study editions, this time on the topic of sport.. no doubt like many of you, i enjoy playing sport because (apart from anything else) regular exercise stops me from becoming fat and unhealthy.

during my time as an active witness, i often had the opportunity to play sports with other brothers, although i became increasingly frustrated that this was not (in my case) organised on a more regular basis by those in my congregation; rather, games of my particular sport were organised less and less frequently until they became virtually non-existant.. things have improved considerably since i became inactive and was improperly shunned by those 'brothers' i used to play sport with, because i have begun playing my particular sport with so-called "worldly" people in my local community.

apart from allowing me to get back into some semblance of shape (thereby keeping mrs cedars happy) i am also able to keep in touch with my neighbours and be more sociable with those who live near me.

cedars

Thanks everyone!

Intel - I've carefully and prayerfully weighed up your suggestion that I take up Extreme Underwater Ironing. I even checked ESPN and other channels to make sure that there are definitely NO international tournaments scheduled for this year or the year after (which is almost a shame, because I feel sure I would have been selected to represent my country, such is my finesse at removing stubborn creases at 15 metres down).

However, I got to thinking "what if a shark strayed into the vicinity of my ironing board? Would a scolding hot iron be sufficiently intimidating to scare it away?" I'm not so sure. Also, if any of my competitors were overcome with jealousy at my starching skills, I could end up with a severed air intake, and I would be done for. I think I will have to pass on the idea, but I appreciate the suggestion.

13

WT: "A sport is objectionable if too many people like it"

by cedars in

if i may, i would like to offer another glimpse into the strange minds of the writers of the more recent watchtower study editions, this time on the topic of sport.. no doubt like many of you, i enjoy playing sport because (apart from anything else) regular exercise stops me from becoming fat and unhealthy.

during my time as an active witness, i often had the opportunity to play sports with other brothers, although i became increasingly frustrated that this was not (in my case) organised on a more regular basis by those in my congregation; rather, games of my particular sport were organised less and less frequently until they became virtually non-existant.. things have improved considerably since i became inactive and was improperly shunned by those 'brothers' i used to play sport with, because i have begun playing my particular sport with so-called "worldly" people in my local community.

apart from allowing me to get back into some semblance of shape (thereby keeping mrs cedars happy) i am also able to keep in touch with my neighbours and be more sociable with those who live near me.

cedars

If I may, I would like to offer another glimpse into the strange minds of the writers of the more recent Watchtower study editions, this time on the topic of sport.

No doubt like many of you, I enjoy playing sport because (apart from anything else) regular exercise stops me from becoming fat and unhealthy. During my time as an active witness, I often had the opportunity to play sports with other brothers, although I became increasingly frustrated that this was not (in my case) organised on a more regular basis by those in my congregation; rather, games of my particular sport were organised less and less frequently until they became virtually non-existant.

Things have improved considerably since I became inactive and was improperly shunned by those 'brothers' I used to play sport with, because I have begun playing my particular sport with so-called "worldly" people in my local community. Apart from allowing me to get back into some semblance of shape (thereby keeping Mrs Cedars happy) I am also able to keep in touch with my neighbours and be more sociable with those who live near me. Everybody, it would seem, is a winner. Imagine my bemusement when I found an article in a recent Watchtower, the October 15th issue (page 3 onwards), condemning this very practice by virtue of an experience from some girl called Arielle:

"Arielle enjoyed watching women's handball on television. When her school organized a team, the prospect of playing dulled her alertness to potential dangers to her spirituality. She signed up to be a goalkeeper. What followed?"

I don't know, did she get pregnant by a handball? Did she inadvertently join an organized crime syndicate masquerading as a handball team? Was she forced to kill people using a handball? Did she get a nasty handball injury requiring surgery which raised problems with the blood issue? Go on, I am dying to know what mortal peril this poor girl got involved in by joining the school handball team...

"She explains: "Some of my teammates had boyfriends who used drugs and smoked. They made fun of me for being different, but I thought I could handle that."

Aw, you poor poor girl! Quick!... Get out of that team while you still have your life! There was I naively thinking your inevitable problems would involve death, unwanted pregnancy or organized crime, but you say some of your friends smoked cigarettes?! Oh, the horror. Get this girl to a shrink for counselling incase she ends up suffering from post-traumatic stress disorders...

"Unexpectedly, the game itself began to corrode my spirituality. Handball filled my mind and heart.

I think we've all had that problem at some point in our lives...

"During Christian meetings, my thoughts often wandered from the Kingdom Hall to the handball court."

I know, intense boredom can be a killer...

"My Christian personality also suffered. Love of playing shifted to a passion for winning. I practiced hard to satisfy my new competitive spirit. Stress built up. I even sacrificed friendships for handball."

I saw the exact same thing happen in Castaway with a volleyball....

"The climax came when our opponents were awarded a penalty shot in one game. I was poised to defend the goal. Before I realised it, I had prayed to Jehovah to help me block the shot! This incident made me realize how much my spirituality had suffered."

You NAUGHTY NAUGHTY girl, imagine praying for inappropriate things! That would be like, I dunno, the faithful and discreet slave asking us to pray for them to be faithful and discreet! Needless to say, the poor girl ended up watching a Society DVD entitled something like "Young People Ask: How can I become more unpopular and make my life needlessly complicated?" and this sealed her decision to quit the demonic handball team.

I wish this was the only evidence of blatant absurdity in the way the Society asks us to view sports and recreation in this particular Watchtower, but it isn't. Fast forward to the article "Is Your Recreation Beneficial?" in the same magazine on pages 8 to 12. The article in itself is a dummies guide to what is and isn't beneficial recreation, even featuring large tick boxes (as though people's ideas about recreation merit a tick or a cross, like some kind of theocratic shopping list). Needless to say, having been written by the Society, it has some pretty absurd ideas.

Obviously I wasn't going to go through everything in my analysis. I was more interested in what it had to say about sports (my hobby of choice). Here is what it said:

"What, though, if you are attracted to certain sports because of their aggressive competitiveness, excessive risk taking, high rates of injury, riotous celebrations, nationalistic fervor, or similar "ingredients"? After examining what is involved, you would likely decide that it would be hard to harmonize your thinking with Jehovah's way of thinking and with the message of peace and love that we preach to others."

So let me get this straight. I'm not allowed to enjoy a sport if:

It's competitive
Has an element of risk
Has the possibility of injury
Can be celebrated
Other people like it, to the extent that it is played at international level, provoking "nationalistic fervor" by fans

I'm sorry, but doesn't the above criteria encompass ALL SPORTS IMAGINEABLE?! And I should add that my sport in particular IS enjoyed by people in more than one country (unlike baseball!), so therefore it is competed at international level, thereby prompting fans from different countries to cheer their respective teams; thereby 'encouraging' people to indulge in idolatrous "nationalistic fervor". It's a good thing that nationalistic fervour wasn't under ban in 1929, or the Cedar Point Ohio convention would never have gotten past the planning stage!

So, now that I am seemingly deprived of my satanically-influenced sport, what does the Society advise me to adopt as my new form of recreation? I need look no further than page 10 which clearly demonstrates how Jesus and his disciples liked nothing more than to gather around the fire, clap their hands, and sing along to someone playing the flute.

Obviously I now need a new form of beneficial recreation, and I promise you I am worthy of your association because I have NOT joined any handball teams (nor do I intend to).

Does anybody on here know how to play the flute?