I remember having conversations with a white South African elder when I was heavily involved in the organization. He was from another congregation, but a friend of the family. I remember him telling me in no uncertain terms that apartheid DID affect brothers within the organization, and there was a degree of segregation in various congregations. I remember being shocked at the time, because I had always been under the assumption that the Witnesses were way ahead of the game with the downfall of apartheid. Little did I know how many other revelations were to follow...
Posts by cedars
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21Wait, Wait... WHAT?! Dec 15th, WT Study - This bugs me
by civicsi00 inok so i decided to just take a quick peek at the dec 15th study edition and i couldn't even get past the very first article!
it's a "personal" story of a jw who was born in 1928 and his experiences from that era.
what is the first thing printed on this page?
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38
Help out my son's band?
by sizemik inok folks .
it's a bit of an unusual invitation .
and it's purely voluntary.
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cedars
I'll vote for anything called steel apocalypse!
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68
Just why would god create dinos??
by highdose inthe jw answer to this is that there must have been some purpose for them that we don't yet understand.. but dinos were pretty violent, basic animals who killed without mercy.
i know not all of them but alot of them did.
the ones that were vegetarian ate huge masses of vegatation, how is that productive to the earth?.
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cedars
I've always been a bit bemused by the Society's approach to dinosaurs. Apparently they were ommitted from the Genesis account because it would have caused confusion among the Israelites, etc (or however the Society word it). However, surely the ommission of such a major part of the Earth's history does more harm than good? As highdose observes, a simple mention that the world was for a long period dominated by huge beasts (or even lizards) would not have been too much for ancient man to get his head round, and it's not like they would have started saying "but where's the evidence?" because they had no idea of the concept of fossils back then. What DID do harm was omitting it, so that when the first fossils began to be uncovered people started saying "hang on, why is none of this in the bible?"
It's an interesting point, and one that I've grappled with.
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27
Census / online survey idea - thoughts please...
by cedars ini've been thinking about the recent developments in the uk following the "apostates = mentally diseased" article in the july 15th edition of the watchtower.
to provide a bit more background, a forum member named amelia has recently had a meeting with uk police officers who subsequently took a copy of the article for their records.
they agreed that the content could potentially incite people to hatred against disaffected witnesses, and the copy is now on file with the uk police in case there are any future incidents of hateful acts against "apostates", including violence or even stalking.. i am working on a press release to make the public more aware of the idealogical oppression being meted out by the society on those who oppose them, both inside and outside the organization.
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cedars
The survey is now online! I will post a separate thread with the link...
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26
How do you know when the Governing Body speaks for itself, and when it is supposed to speak for Jehovah?
by dgp inin the catholic church, the pope is considered "infallible" when he speaks ex cathedra.
that is to say, he is not infallible when he speaks about things that don't have to do with religion.
for example, he may say whatever he pleases about economics, but no one will hold that catholic economists will have sinned against god if they consider that the pope is wrong.. the important point here is that the pope is thought to be infallible only when he speaks about matters strictly related to the church.. the wikipedia has this:.
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cedars
Just an quick addition to my previous post since it's been on my mind in the intervening period.
When you think about it, Spirit-Guided implies MORE intervention on the part of the Holy Spirit in the writing process than Spirit-Inspired.
If I planned a trip for us to all go off and climb a mountain somewhere, and said "don't worry, I'll be guiding you to the summit" you would assume that I would be with you every step of the way, helping you to negotiate the perilous crags and pinnacles until we reached the top of the mountain.
If however I said "now don't you worry, I'm going to inspire you all the way to the top" you would think "oh, great...." and brace yourselves for me to slide off into a rousing braveheart style speech, or start singing an inspirational song etc.
To guide someone in writing something is far more involved than to inspire them.
Just a thought.
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31
My first English Essay for college, I wrote about my experience as a JW.
by JonathanH inso i am in my first semester of college, and i'm really enjoying it.
i am already tired since i work full time in addition to going to school full time, but i will get over that hump eventually.
anyway in my english 101 class our first essay due was to be a personal narrative, 4 pages(ish), in mla format using microsoft word.
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cedars
Shocking, I can't believe your mate turned you in who you'd helped when HE was disfellowshipped. These guys are unbelievable.
Thanks so much for sharing that story.
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92
My Letter to local Newspapaer - Your Feedback Please?
by cofty inmy local congregation has been in the news this week following a successful application for planning permission for a quick build.
a local vicar objected because the application described it as a building for "christain worship".. .
vicar fury at new home for jehovahs .
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cedars
A true local hero! Well done cofty, it was a well written letter.
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26
How do you know when the Governing Body speaks for itself, and when it is supposed to speak for Jehovah?
by dgp inin the catholic church, the pope is considered "infallible" when he speaks ex cathedra.
that is to say, he is not infallible when he speaks about things that don't have to do with religion.
for example, he may say whatever he pleases about economics, but no one will hold that catholic economists will have sinned against god if they consider that the pope is wrong.. the important point here is that the pope is thought to be infallible only when he speaks about matters strictly related to the church.. the wikipedia has this:.
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cedars
dgp - it's a strange one this. Basically, the Governing Body do not claim infallibility, and refute (at least openly) the claim that their writings are inspired by Holy Spirit in the same way as the bible writers. However, they DO claim that the Holy Spirit guides them in writing the publications and 'preparing' the spiritual food. Quite what is the difference between spirit inspired and spirit guided has never been explained in any publication to my knowledge. To my mind, both expressions mean one and the same thing.
I sometimes wonder whether before long the Governing Body will 'go for broke' and just say "Too hell with it, we ARE inspired after all, and Watchtowers are basically just extensions to the Bible canon. Deal with it."
They've pulled enough crazy stunts down the years, it's only a matter of time before they 'go the whole hog'.
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15
Moulding our JW Children
by angel.face inevery year, at the beginning of the school year i prepare a letter for my daughter's teachers saying 'we are jws don't celebrate this....no anthem....here are some suggestions..blah blah".
and here's our 'jws and education' brochure from 1969, a bit outdated but you know, it's spiritual food at the proper time.
besides, its an easy placement.
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cedars
angel.face - it's a nightmare that you're in, and I have no advice for you but to just be the best mother you can be under those circumstances.
I don't have kids but am coming round to the idea of spawning a Cedars Jnr someday soon. It was thinking about having children that kick-started by "awakening". I was thinking "how can I teach this to any kids I may have in the future when I don't believe it myself?" I went through these arguments with Mrs Cedars at the time and was expecting her to refuse to have kids if I wasn't going to raise them as JWs, but to my surprise she agreed that I could teach them whatever I want so long as she got to give her side of the story (the JW side) to them, and take them to meetings etc. Since then, I don't think she would even take them to meetings, because thankfully she's awakening herself.
I'm sure each of us that were "born in" will have our horror stories - cantleave is a good example. I remember being told by my rather authoritarian teacher to stand outside in the middle of the school courtyard for refusing to colour in a Christmas poster, and that's when I was six! I turned out relatively unscathed mentally (despite what the 7/15 Watchtower would have you believe) so hopefully the same will be true of your children when they are older and look back on all of this.
Hang in there!
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30
Hello!
by N.drew ini would like to introduce myself belatedly please.
i am a middle aged married female.
i am an inactive jehovah's witness.
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cedars
N.drew - I know we have locked horns on here before, but I just wanted to commend you for expressing your story so coherently. It's so nice to know that you are able to explain yourself in a format that is easily readible. I look forward to reading more similar contributions from you in the future.