Posts by Nanoprobe

23

Five Questions To Ask The JW At Your Door

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

below was a letter to editor that was printed in the paducah paper.

i thought it might be relevant now as jw's are defending their position on child abuse as being ok. it all boils down to the five questions.

if the typical jw can answer the five questions truthfully then they are forced to admit there is a problem.

Nanoprobe

Path, I believe you are the Devils Advocate, not necessarily a bad thing, definitely something the Watchtower should have always have had on staff. Honest questions that challenge a position encourage us to reexamine our policy.

Quote:

Bill, how would you propose JWs deal with a convicted JW molester who has served his sentence and now wishes to fulfill his role as a "Christian Witness"? What does the congregation do with these people? And is there really a significant number of CONVICTED molesters that are JWs where this scenario is realistic?

I know of one current case where a CONVICTED sex offender has returned to the hall of his victim, this is a recent development and he has not yet caused problems. Only emotional distress for the victim and her friends. As Princess has pointed out State law reguires warning the Pedophiles neighbors, why because sex offenders commonly repeat their crimes. You can undoubtly do the research on this point yourself.

I also know of a case where a Confessed molester was forgiven by the elders, allowed to go on bible study activity with his wife and there molested the householders two little girls. He is now CONVICTED, I am not sure if the congregation is letting him have another chance or not.

Clement Pandela admitted to molesting little girls for 40 years. Fitzwater had molested at least seventeen.

Quote

We've already discussed Bill that you could only warn parents if there has been a conviction, otherwise that could be slander, which is illegal. You could state that you have filed a complaint with the authorities.

I found out that warning parents even with a CONVICTION is considered slander. Check the insight book under Gossip (includes slander topic) . In my case: he is a registered sex offender, the state website caveats read: the information is public information to be used by anyone for any reason. Legally it is not slander, according to my three-volume dictionary it is not slander, but according to the elders IT IS SLANDER! Why?

Because the Insight Book vol I page 990 states revealing confidential matters to others who have no right to know is slander. And who decides if others have a right to knowwell, the elders. The Insight Book also states that a person may be turned away from his friends because of some defamatory remark about them and enmities and divisions may develop. I dont doubt if I warn the young father that this friend is a pedophile it will cause divisions. I dont doubt that if the congregation finds out that he was in prison for assaulting that beautiful child it will cause enmities.

Its late in my time zone and I must go. Also sorry I don't have an HTML program right now.

Possibly you have been in a situation of being wrongly accused, but I would suggest you read some of the guest book at Silentlambs.

I dont doubt you and I will talk again.

Edited by - Nanoprobe on 10 June 2002 1:24:11

23

Admit doubts

by Realist in

jw
friends

would a jw ever admit that s/he has doubts about the wt teachings?

do they have the order to pretend they believe everything or could they discuss what bothers them?.

i assume they have to pretend they think everything is dandy and the teachings logical when they speak with elders or other witnesses.

Nanoprobe

Hate to disagree with you, but I have a group of about 10 active members as friends. We constantly discuss doubts, and I won't even call it doubts, I would call it strong disagreements with the Org.

Lots of active witnesses are saying the Molestation letter was a joke. The big problem is you have to be careful who you talk to, but my friends are tried and tested. However, my sister emailed my son, warning him I was an apostate.

13

Baptismal questions- Verbal Legal Contract w/ WTS

by Cappuccino OC in

jw
friends

baptismal questions are a legal verbal contract with the wts.

baptismal questions from the august 1, 1966 watchtower, p. 465: .

(1) have you recognized yourself before jehovah god as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the father, through his son jesus christ?.

Nanoprobe

But if it is a written contract, shouldn't we have signed something? I don't remember signing anything but that was a long time ago.

13

Baptismal questions- Verbal Legal Contract w/ WTS

by Cappuccino OC in

jw
friends

baptismal questions are a legal verbal contract with the wts.

baptismal questions from the august 1, 1966 watchtower, p. 465: .

(1) have you recognized yourself before jehovah god as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the father, through his son jesus christ?.

Nanoprobe

AlanF

I read your article, "An Aspect of the Legalism of Jehovah's Witnesses". But I was unclear on the answer to this question>>>>If a person was baptized before 1975 can they be DFd for choosing to no longer associate?

10

How to combat mind control..

by noidea in

jw
friends

i never knew it was as simple as this!!!.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html.

member of the: i have ~no-idea~ class.

Nanoprobe

Okay, I'm definitely reguiring my daughter wear that to the assembly tomorrow.
I'm Emailing it to her right now so she can get started making it.

13

Bowen gives WBTS another Dilemma

by Nanoprobe in

jw
friends

i think bill bowen has given the watchtower another dilemma.. has anyone had a chance to read bills letter to the draffenville body of elders?.

there isnt a link to the page but its: http://www.silentlambs.com latest info, bowen letter judicial committee 5-20-02. youll enjoy the entire letter but below is an excerpt:.

a second area that gives greater cause for concern are the other comments that appear to be malicious and slanderous in their context, i offer you the following:.

Nanoprobe

I would assume that if Bill’s allegations of slander were based on statements published by the press, then the individual reporters and their news agency employers would have to be subpoenaed also.
Way too much press, what a dilemma!!
As Grunt said:
I read the trial record of the one they had in England where old Freddy boy was on the stand and made a fool of himself, saying that even if the Society was wrong the people should go along with it.
Good point, did you read about Cardinal Law basically blaming the victim whose abuse began when he was six?
Religious leaders who consider themselves better than Joe Public don’t do well under cross-examination.

13

Bowen gives WBTS another Dilemma

by Nanoprobe in

jw
friends

i think bill bowen has given the watchtower another dilemma.. has anyone had a chance to read bills letter to the draffenville body of elders?.

there isnt a link to the page but its: http://www.silentlambs.com latest info, bowen letter judicial committee 5-20-02. youll enjoy the entire letter but below is an excerpt:.

a second area that gives greater cause for concern are the other comments that appear to be malicious and slanderous in their context, i offer you the following:.

Nanoprobe

I’d guess Watchtower was confident they could ride the tide of Dateline, issue the new Molestation Policy, throw in the Dr Starck Dissedent thing and get back to Business As Usual.
Then just let the publicity die down, after all with 10,000,000 viewers, it hasn’t gotten anywhere near the press the Catholic Church has. And with the summer assemblies coming up they have an unchallenged forum to straighten out the R&F.
But this little maneuver by Bill and his attorney at the least guarantees addition news coverage.
Can you imagine dear ol” JR being proven to have lied by the court?

13

Bowen gives WBTS another Dilemma

by Nanoprobe in

jw
friends

i think bill bowen has given the watchtower another dilemma.. has anyone had a chance to read bills letter to the draffenville body of elders?.

there isnt a link to the page but its: http://www.silentlambs.com latest info, bowen letter judicial committee 5-20-02. youll enjoy the entire letter but below is an excerpt:.

a second area that gives greater cause for concern are the other comments that appear to be malicious and slanderous in their context, i offer you the following:.

Nanoprobe

I think Bill Bowen has given the Watchtower another dilemma.

Has anyone had a chance to read Bill’s letter to the Draffenville Body of Elders?

There isn’t a link to the page but it’s: http://www.silentlambs.com Latest Info, Bowen letter Judicial Committee 5-20-02

You’ll enjoy the entire letter but below is an excerpt:
A second area that gives greater cause for concern are the other comments that appear to be malicious and slanderous in their context, I offer you the following:
(This is article #5)
New York Post, May 9,"He also said local congregations decided to charge them with various spiritual violations." AP-May 9,"In a statement issued from their headquarters, the Jehovah's Witnesses said that church leaders are "required by the Holy Scriptures to see to it that the congregation remains clean and unified." Tullahoma News- May 11, "Brown also said that local congregation decided to charge the members with various spiritual violations." Washington Post, May 11, "J.R. Brown, a national spokesman for the Jehovah's Witnesses, confirmed that the four had been called to the hearings, but he said the proceedings may focus on "sins" unrelated to public comments on sexual abuse. He provided no specifics." Tennessean- May 11, "People in the organization who are accused of sex abuse are subject to a hearing like the one Anderson attended yesterday, Brown said." All these statements are slanderous and infer or imply unchristian and ungodly conduct being the basis for these Judicial Hearings, this of course is absolutely untrue, therefore I ask for a written retraction of these statements and a written apology to each of the four victims who are facing Judicial Hearings.

Next Read Letter from Bowen Attorney 5-30-02

Again an excerpt:
In addition, Mr. Bowen’s previous letter of 5-20-02 remains unanswered as to the request for written apologies for slanderous remarks made by Watchtower spokesman to the media This letter will serve as notice upon you that we feel Mr. Bowen has been slandered by allegations that he has committed a "serious sin" unrelated to the Dateline interview. This would certainly lead anyone to believe that he committed serious personal sins against the laws of God and leaves the mind open to all sorts of rampant speculation about what an immoral person he might be. It implies that the church has certain information regarding serious sins and we absolutely deny any such allegations and would again point out that no such proof exists to be presented at the hearing.
Therefore, we again must demand from you an immediate public apology and letter of vindication to Mr. Bowen and the other victims cited in his letter. We expect that to be published in all AP affiliate newspapers within the next five (5) days or you stand in jeopardy of having legal action taken against you.

What a dilemma, does WBTS issue an apology and let the rank & file read it in the newspaper? Or do they let Bowen sue WBTS and have JR Brown and who knows whom else on the witnesses stand. (Odd term isn’t it: witnesses stand) Which gives them the least press?

If it was sent 5/30 then it looks like D Day is almost upon them.

7

Baltimore Silentlambs speak up!

by Nathan Natas in

link: http://www.sunspot.net/news/local/bal-jehovahs21.story?coll=bal%2dhome%2dheadlines.

women accuse another church of past abuse.

former jehovahs witness leader to be tried on sex offenses, attempted rape; congregation is in chase; 3 accusers, now 29 to 31, claim incidents occurred between 1974 and 1984 .

Nanoprobe

David Semonian uses the term “aggressive policy for the protection of children”. How would WBTS define this term?

a)Your children are safe within the organization
b)WBTS bullies parents who report, excommunicates whistleblowers, that’s pretty aggressive isn’t it?
c)None of the above. It was a mis-quote the actual statement was “aggressive policy for the protection of pedophiles”.

1

Test your knowledge

by Nanoprobe in

test your knowledge.

(more than one answer may be correct).

1)the nation found it necessary for president clinton to define basic terms; wbts media man jr brown uses terms that require further definition.

Nanoprobe

Test your knowledge
(More than one answer may be correct)

1)The nation found it necessary for President Clinton to define basic terms; WBTS Media man JR Brown uses terms that require further definition. How would Mr. Brown define “not punish the parents”?
a)Not penalize in anyway
b)We do not engage in psychological torture banned by the CIA.
c)Harass, intimidate but currently not burn at the stake.
2)JR Brown also uses the term “aggressive policy for the protection of children”. How would Mr. Brown define this term?
a)Your children are safe within the organization
b)WBTS bullies parents who report, excommunicates whistleblowers, that’s pretty aggressive isn’t it?
c)None of the above. It was a mis-quote the actual statement was “aggressive policy for the protection of pedophiles”.
3)Describe your last private meeting with the elders.
a)Spiritually enlightening
b)Fabulous, I got enough to sell a “Borg” script to Star Trek.
c)Just what I needed as I’m writing a book on the dynamics of the Salem witch trials.
4)A convicted registered sex offender is sitting with a young family at the meetings, you warn the father. When the elders invite you to the back room do they:
a)Commend you for protecting the children
b)Discipline you for slander and dividing the congregation
c)Condemn you for ruining the Pedophile Paradise
5)A congregation member has molested your four year old, after the elders explain that nothing can be done and he must be viewed as an innocent person. Do you:
a)Thank them for their help and time.
b)Whip out your cell phone and call the police.
c)Explain that you have hired a gang of ex-cons to personally educate them on the evils of sex abuse.
6)Your JW mate physically and emotionally abuses you for years. After being thrown out of your home for the 15th time, you decide not to return. Do the elders:
a)Encourage your mate to get whatever help he needs to fix his personality disorder
b)Inform you that if your mate commits adultery it is your fault as you are the one who left the home
c)Tell you that the WBTS won’t tolerate high divorce numbers and you need to get home and back to suffering.
7)What statement has a Judicial Committee NEVER made to a sex abuse victim:
a)We’re licensed child psychiatrists qualified to help you
b)Did you have a witness to the event of molestation?
c)You’re so cute, who could blame him for liking you?