Posts by BruceX

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

BruceX

waton:

BruceX: You are wrong, it is not crazy, it is criminal, convicting (for all purposes executing her) on evidence that later is proved wrong in law.

I have to agree with you.

10

Faithful & Discreet Slave - 72 years ago!

by BoogerMan in

it was every jw taking part in the preaching work.

lol.. (matthew 24:45) “who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?.

w50 7/1 p. 199 par.

BruceX

List of major WT revisions copied from https://beroeans.net/2022/11/26/a-bible-student-writes-to-her-jw-teacher/

(a) November 1881 – The slave is a class of individuals and refers to all anointed Bible students, Zions Watch Tower October and November 1881.

(b) December 1896 – The slave is one individual and refers solely to Charles Taze Russell.

(c) February 1927 – The slave refers to an individual and two distinct classes Jesus Christ alone, Jesus Christ and anointed Bible students.

(d) August 1950 – The slave refers to anointed Jehovah’s witnesses who make up the 144,000.

(e) December 1951 – The slave is anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses who make up 144,000 and is led by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.

(f) November 1956 – The slave is anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses under the direction and authority of the Governing Body of the Watch Tower Bible and Track Society.

(g) June 2009 – The slave refers only to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

(h) July 2013 – It is clearly defined that the slave is the Governing Body of the Jehovah’s Witnesses only. This occurred after the large lawsuit in Australia when over 1000 child sex abuse cases, which prohibited suing the organization.

I found a good explanation of the faithful and discreet slave at https://beroeans.net/2020/05/15/examining-matthew-24-part-12-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave/

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

BruceX

Fisherman:

But WT proclaims to be God’s only agency and FDS and that cannot be based on interpretation

The pope says the same. So it must be true. No prove needed. Got it. That's how you think. But at least the pope doesn't kick you out of his church if you disagree with him.

Did e.g. Anthony Morris prove to you that he is part of the FDS? I haven't seen any prove.

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

BruceX

Fisherman:

They don’t proclaim to be inspired so that concedes the possibility of error.

But if you don't believe a wrong teaching from the FDS, you get kicked out. And then when it turns out you were right after all and the FDS was wrong, you still have to repent that you were unwilling to believe something contrary to what God teaches. So JW have to obey men (8 men in New York) rather than God.

And what is really crazy is this. When you get kicked out, JW believe that you will get destroyed unless you are willing to come back and believe what the FDS says, even if the FDS teaching turned out to contradict God's teaching.

At the end this means that God will destroy you if you are unwilling to contradict his word the Bible based on a FDS teaching. Isn't this crazy?

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

BruceX

scholar:

It simply means that at the fulfilment of the 70 years at, in or for Babylon the Exiles would be back home right on time in 537 BCE by the seventh month. Simple , you got it?

Wow.
Jeremiah 29:10: "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled, I will turn my attention to you and I will make good my promise by bringing you back to this place."

You said the moment, the day they arrived in Juda, the 70 years were fulfilled. But the sentence uses the words "will" after the fulfullment, pointing to a future return. So when they arrived in Juda God turned his attention to them and sent them back to Juda when they are already in Juda. Wow, wow, wow...

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

BruceX

That is why the beginning and end points of the 70 years from (his standpoint) could seem to mismatch what history or science thinks

But there are mismatches with other scriptures. That's what's important to me.

You believe that the 70 years were over on the day the exiles arrived at home. What does Jeremiah 29:10 say next in this verse after those 70 years were over, i.e. once the exiles arrived at home, their place? Can you answer this without making nonsense?

There is an interpretation of all those scriptures where you don't run into a single biblical contradiction.

JW claim that they interpret the Bible so that there are not contradictions with other scriptures. But as we can see here that's not the case. Other religions do the same to support their doctrines.

he ensured that his Word was completely fulfilled from his standpoint and not from a human standpoint .

You have a human standpoint on how those scriptures are to be interpreted, that's why there are contradictions, and there is no spiritual food a the right time in over 100 years to explain it.

Again, there is an interpretation of all those scriptures where you don't run into a single biblical contradiction. And the interesting thing is that it also matches archaeology, another bonus. But the problem for JW is that this harmonious interpretation doesn't support the 1914 doctrine,

Jesus didn't teach this doctrine anyway.

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

BruceX

Yes, if you change the meaning of something expressed in a different language, then the thing you changed means something different to the original. Well done you. 🤦‍♂️It's remarkably odd that you think this supports your position.

There are NWT translation in at least 2 different languages where they say "for Babylon".

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

BruceX

scholar:

Got you, so you can't explain it. And certain NWT verses like "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" and Ezra where it shows that the trip back was about 4 months can be ignored.

I have another question.
You say that the 70 years were over on the day the exiles arrived at home. What does Jeremiah 29:10 say next in this verse after those 70 years were over, i.e. once the exiles arrived at home?

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

BruceX

scholar:

You said that "at" in the verse "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" has a locative meaning in the sense of place or location and is similar to 'in Babylon'. So 70 years in Babylon.

You said that the land was vacated by the seventh month in 607 BCE .

And we have a round trip between Juda and Babylon of at least 6 months.

So seventh month of 607 BCE + 70 years in Babylon + 6 months round trip, in which year and month did they return when you add this up? Definitely not the month of Tishri in 537 BCE.

349

Who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Godlyman in

if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.

estephan.

BruceX

Who knows what exactly happened. It is all a guess. But given the 70 years, a couple of years more or less is in the target area and within the realm of possibility making wt interpretation plausible. Won’t know for sure until it hits you from above. Everything considered, wt interpretation based on 70 years ( FDS appointed circa 1919) has not been been debunked, ( if one is looking for relevancy of this subtopic ). We know that the FDS is not Judaism or Islam or other religions, it needs to be Christianity and since the churches of christendom failed to stop JW as hard as they tried, that eliminates christendom. 7x, 1914,1919, appointment of fds depends on 70 so that proves relevance.

I'm trying to find common ground with "scholar" on a lower bound for the round trip. Upper bound, who knows...