if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Yes, if you change the meaning of something expressed in a different language, then the thing you changed means something different to the original. Well done you. 🤦‍♂️It's remarkably odd that you think this supports your position.
There are NWT translation in at least 2 different languages where they say "for Babylon".
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
scholar:
Got you, so you can't explain it. And certain NWT verses like "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" and Ezra where it shows that the trip back was about 4 months can be ignored.
I have another question.
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
scholar:
You said that "at" in the verse "When 70 years at Babylon are fulfilled" has a locative meaning in the sense of place or location and is similar to 'in Babylon'. So 70 years in Babylon.
You said that the land was vacated by the seventh month in 607 BCE .
And we have a round trip between Juda and Babylon of at least 6 months.
So seventh month of 607 BCE + 70 years in Babylon + 6 months round trip, in which year and month did they return when you add this up? Definitely not the month of Tishri in 537 BCE.
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Who knows what exactly happened. It is all a guess. But given the 70 years, a couple of years more or less is in the target area and within the realm of possibility making wt interpretation plausible. Won’t know for sure until it hits you from above. Everything considered, wt interpretation based on 70 years ( FDS appointed circa 1919) has not been been debunked, ( if one is looking for relevancy of this subtopic ). We know that the FDS is not Judaism or Islam or other religions, it needs to be Christianity and since the churches of christendom failed to stop JW as hard as they tried, that eliminates christendom. 7x, 1914,1919, appointment of fds depends on 70 so that proves relevance.
I'm trying to find common ground with "scholar" on a lower bound for the round trip. Upper bound, who knows...
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
Frankly, I don't know because the time of the journey and its route is discussed in the Bible. so 6 months or 4 months are both possible. However, supporters of 538 BCE for the Return such as Jeffro, vale Alan F- May he rest in peace, Jonsson and others must have envisaged a 'Babylonian Highway (B1) from Babylon to Jerusalem complete with a mass transportation system such as rail, road or plane to make the return in such an impossible timeframe.We know that the return trip took 4 months. So both trips must have taken more than 4 months, therefore 4 months is not possible for the round trip as you suggested as a possibility. I tried to be very conservative and suggested 6 months round trip but it's very likely it took longer than 6 months.
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
scholar:
In order to fulfill Jeremiah's prophecy and later confirmed by Ezra, the land had to be vacated by the seventh month in 607 BCE which began the 70 years of Exile- Servitude and Desolation.I agree that the trip from Jerusalem to Babylon was more likely to be 4 months. Since we are talking about desolation of Judah, we can easily assume that the trip back and forth between Judah and Babylon was at least 6 months, Do you agree with this?
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
scholar:
The trip back took at least 4 months.
Would you agree that it's reasonable to assume that the trip from Jerusalem to Babylon was at least 2 months?
And that they left the city of Jerusalem in the month of Tishri in 607, which would be around September–October in 607 BCE?
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
I have to do this slowly, unfortunately.
scholar:
How long was the trip back from Babylon to Jerusalem? The Bible is quite clear on this and WT says it was 4 months. Do you agree with this?
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
scholar:
'at Bbabylon' has a locative meaning in the sense of place or location and is similar to 'in Babylon'. However, most translations render the phrase as; 'for Babylon' which has a purposive meaning rather than a locative meaning. In either case, it shows that the Jews were exiled in Babylon and under Babylon's domination for the full period of 70 years.
So they were exactly 70 years or at least for 70 years in exile in Babylon?
if anyone were to come up to you claiming that they are the faithful and discreet slave, how would you go about proving them to be false, based upon scripture?.
estephan.
The Saturn position is interesting since it moves slow in the sky and points to 568 for Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year.
To check out: https://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Yoursky
Location Baghdad: 33°31'52" N, 44°37'1" E
Universial Time: -568-04-22 1:00:00
Saturn is near Pisces and Pegasus (known as Swallow in the past
and VAT 4956 says Saturn was in front of Swallow)
Universial Time: -588-04-22 1:00:00
Saturn cannot be seen.
