Posts by NeonMadman

9

What is "PRESENT" truth? Who understands the Greek ?

by hamsterbait in

i dont know greek, but cant help wondering what the word "present" in that phrase means.. the borg uses it to mean "what we tell you at this time is true".. i wonder if it means present in the sense of somebody you know being present in the room with you.. "the truth present in our lives" "the truth that is here with us".. just wondering..... hb.

NeonMadman

I just ran a search on the phrase in a number of different Bible translations. It does not appear in most modern Bible translations at all, and that includes the NWT. It does appear at 2 Peter 1:12 in the KJV and the New King James. Other translations render the verse in a way that does not imply 'the truth at the present time,' but seem to refer to the truth being present in Christians.

The NASB, for example, reads, "Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you."

The ESV (English Standard Version) reads: "Therefore I intend always to remind you of these qualities, though you know them and are established in the truth that you have."

Even the NWT reads, "For this reason I shall be disposed always to remind YOU of these things, although YOU know [them] and are firmly set in the truth that is present [in YOU]."

Clearly the emphasis of the verse is on the truth being present in believers, and not on the believers' having to keep up with ever-changing versions of the truth.

18

WT June 15, 2012 - No lasting career in this system

by Designer Stubble in

NeonMadman

Nothing changes:

Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15
"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years . ... Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!"

56

Common JW phrases that aren't in the Bible

by biometrics in

i'm interested to know common phrases jehovah's witnesses use, but don't actually apear in the bible (even the nwt).

especially phrases most jw's would assume are in the bible.

e.g.. "paradise earth".

NeonMadman

they had to invent kingdom hall, the word church has pagan connotations. it comes from circee(sp) an ancient goddess of trances and medicines. funny but true.

According to Wikipedia, at least, the word "church" is derived from the Greek kyrios ("Lord") by way of the Germanic, not from the goddess Circe. However, the JWs still couldn't use the term despite its lack of pagan origins, because then they wouldn't be different.

65

Attention Governing Body: October 2, 2014 is only 940 days away...

by Alfred in

in 1823, john aquila brown (a man who is not mentioned in any wt publication) came up with a bizarre mathematical calculation which totalled 2,520 years (in an unauthorized attempt to predict the end of the gentile times).... several religions recycled this bizarre calculation, including the adventists and the bible students... when armageddon didn't come on the variety of early 20th century dates predicted by several "dooms-day" religions of that time (including charles taze russell's bible students who predicted that the big a would start in 1914), they all finally realized that this 2,520-year calculation was nothing more than arbitrary mathematical speculation derived from erratic biblical extrapolation.... except for the bible students who continued to move up the date for armageddon 2 more times (1918, 1925) and then decided to use wwi as the starting point for the "last days".. all the while, one thing that seems to remain intact is the october 2, 1914 date.

oddly, for the watchtower bible & tract publishing cult, this particular date still marks the end of the 2,520-year period (that john aquila brown referred to in his bizarre 1823 book "the even tide")... again, no mention of this in any watchtower publication.

but, for jws, that date still remains the starting point for the period of time often referred to as the "last days" or even "the generation that shall not pass".. because of this, the governing body has been forced to change the definition of "the generation that shall not pass" countless times since the early 1970's.

NeonMadman

the expiration date of this latest definition is quickly approaching

Actually, they've bought themselves another good 50 or 60 years if the drones accept the "overlapping generation" teaching.

87

Beliefs Tied to Geography

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

.

NeonMadman

Well, if the whole point is that everyone needs to apply critical thinking to his or her beliefs, I would agree with that. But usually, the argument in the graphic is thrown at Christians to imply that, because their beliefs may have been geographically derived, therefore they are almost certainly wrong. It proves no such thing, and there is no relationship between geography and truth claims; that was really my only point in commenting here. So yes, SweetBaby, I would agree with what you say, for the most part. Intellectual vigilance is necessary in maintaining (and, if necessary, modifying) any belief structure.

Leaving, thanks for the Plantinga link, I've saved it for near future reading.

4

Troy Barnes should be Disfellowshipped

by I Want to Believe in

anyone else watch community?

i love the show, and it just happens to have the only openly jw lead character in the history of tv.

but whenever they'd bring up that troy was a jw i'd cringe a little, back then because how easily he would go against those beliefs and now because of how innocent they make it out to be.

NeonMadman

There was an article about it that generated a ton of comments here. I got kind of hot and heavy into it, since it ticked me off that the JWs were just doing "drive-by shootings," popping into the thread to say the article was full of lies and misinformation without actually specifying any lies or misinformation, then disappearing when they were challenged.

5

Martha Liverance, mother of Gilead instructor Wallace Liverance, dead at age 85

by VM44 in

jw
friends

martha liverance, 85. wednesday, november 23, 2011. the gazette (hawthorne edition).

hawthorne martha liverance, 85, died nov. 2.. .

she was a 45-year resident of ridgewood and a long-time member of the wyckoff congregation of jehovah's witnesses.. .

NeonMadman

Wow, that's very local for me; she has sons living in the same town as me.

87

Beliefs Tied to Geography

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

.

NeonMadman

It sounds as if you are saying that, because there are many wrong religions, it is not possible that any of them are true. Otherwise, what is the significance of the fact that most people are born into religions that are not true? I would agree that the matter of which religion is correct deserves serious investigation. Those who investigate seriously should be able to determine what is true and what is not (though I acknowledge that the issue is a complex one). But the argument presented in this thread, that of geography determining religious belief, and that fact somehow contra-indicating the truth of all religions, seems to be along the lines of the well-known "one less god" argument. The fact that many beliefs are false does not mean that one belief is not true. Atheists happen to believe that atheism, among all the belief systems of the world, is the correct one. Theists would disagree. But the fact that atheism (or, by extension, any form of theism) is one belief system among many certainly cannot be used to argue that it is therefore necessarily false. If there is one God, then the fact that many people believe in gods that do not exist is hardly an argument against the existence of the one who does, any more than the infinite number of potential wrong answers to the question of what 2+2 equals means that there is no correct answer. The geography argument simply presents a logical fallacy, as does the "one less god" argument. Neither speaks to the actual question of the existence of a true God.

87

Beliefs Tied to Geography

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

.

NeonMadman

Unless critical thinking is first and foremost, Unless a "belief system" has built-in corrective measures as far as testing its own truthfulness, then is would be correct to assume it is wrong.
edit: of course these corrective measures would be biase to support the "belief system's" viewpoint.

I'm not sure how that relates to the discussion at hand, that of beliefs being determined by geography. My point was that this sort of argument (that of beliefs being determined by geography, as advanced in the graphic in the original post in this thread) is often raised against theists, but it really proves nothing. How we acquired a belief in no way relates to whether the belief is true or not. The same could be said of atheists and agnostics in this regard as of theists.

One might also wonder what "corrective measures" are in place to test the presupposition of materialistic naturalism that forms the basis of the atheist's belief, and whether such corrective measures (if they exist) might be biased in favor of that belief system's viewpoint. Ultimately, all belief systems - including atheism - are based on presuppositions that cannot be absolutely proven.

6

Will there be a SECOND Armageddon in the year 2914?

by Alfred in

ok... i know the answer... absolutely not..... but where does the watchtower get this idea that satan will be released in the year 2914 (1914 + 1,000) to test the faith of jws who have been cleaning up the planet for a thousand years?

which bible texts have they taken out of context to arrive at this bizarre and exclusive jw teaching?.

also, what are they saying will happen to the those who fail this "final test"?

NeonMadman

I don't believe I've ever seen it in a WT pub where they specified that 2914 would be when Satan would be released. In fact, their teachings would seem to argue against that date. The 1000 years begin at Armageddon, not in 1914. Satan is released at the end of the 1000 years. Since Armageddon has not yet occurred, the 1000 years have not begun, therefore, could not end in 2914. Do you have a citation from a publication where it mentions this date?