NeonMadman

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Posts by NeonMadman

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  20

  What do JW's make of Early Christians?

  by ForbiddenFruit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs
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  NeonMadman

  
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  106

  NEW BIBLE

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the following is part of an email from a retired district overseer in the states.

  (source private).

  "the new bible will be released at the agm and i understand only two versions will be printed from now on.

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  NeonMadman

  By George I think you got it!

  Oct 13 WT front cover, grey cover & speckled edges.

  Good catch.

  That looks like a standard NWT 1984 reference edition (p. 712), but one that was bound by one of the commercial services that binds Bibles for JWs. The corner of the page that you can see looks exactly like the page in the existing Reference Bible.
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  4

  Does anyone have a good scan of the 1980 BOE letter on apostasy?

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i need a decent scan of this letter.

  the one that states you can be df'd for merely believing something different from current wt dogma, even if it is a private belief.

  dd.

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  NeonMadman

  I don't think the letter you are referring to was a BoE letter. I think it was addressed to circuit overseers and above. The only reproduction of it that I have seen was in Ray Franz' Crisis of Conscience.
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  100

  Upcoming KM!! Why we are not False Prophets!

  by DATA-DOG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this subject is coming up this month in the tms.

  i just thought i would start a post for newbies or lurkers.

  if you have any scans of the awake inside cover that would be awesome.

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  NeonMadman

  I'm scheduled to speak on this very topic at the Witnesses Now for Jesus convention in PA this October. Here's a little advance info from my notes in response to the Reasoning book quotations:

  Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets.

  Have you ever heard of an un-inspired prophet? In fact, in the Bible, it is not the prophet that is said to be “inspired,” it is the text of Scripture. However, if God is truly giving you a message by whatever means He chooses, then that is inspiration. To claim that you are speaking God’s words is to claim to be inspired – even if you don’t actually use the word “inspiration.” Remember Deuteronomy 18:20-22? The Law didn’t say that the prophet had to claim to be inspired, just that he spoke in the name of YHWH. The process by which God gives the message through His prophet is inspiration.

  Also, the Watchtower uses all sorts of terms that mean the same thing, so it’s a distinction without a difference. They call themselves “Jehovah’s channel of communication.” They claim to be divinely guided and “spirit directed.” They say they are “God’s spokesmen” and that he has put his words into their mouths. With all these claims, do they really need to use the word, “inspired?”

  They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.-Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6.

  One Watchtower article even claimed that they could not be false prophets because “false prophets do not admit their mistakes.” Now, that’s just absurd. False prophets are the only kind of prophets who have mistakes to admit. True prophets get their messages directly from God. If your message is from God, it will never be mistaken! The big mistake is to claim to speak for God when He is not giving you the message.

  It’s true that the apostles appeared to have expected Christ’s return within their lifetimes. But they never set a date for it, and they never attached God’s name to any predicted event, calling it “the Creator’s promise” or “God’s dates, not ours.” What makes a false prophecy is, not a mistaken expectation, but the claim that the prophecy originates with God. Now, there is a specific instance in the Bible that some Witnesses will use to try to demonstrate that the apostles taught false teachings in the name of Jesus, and thus to argue that merely teaching falsely in God’s name doesn’t necessarily make one a false prophet. Their conclusion, of course, is that if it was OK for the apostles to teach falsely in Jesus’ name, then it’s also OK for their organization to do so. I’m referring to the account at John 21:20-23. Here’s what it says:

  Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the supper and had said, "Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?" When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?" Jesus said to him, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!" So the saying spread abroad among the brothers that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"

  In other words, Jesus was telling Peter that it was none of his business what would happen to John, but that Peter needed to keep his eyes on Jesus. I have had a JW try to tell me that the apostles went around teaching, on Jesus’ authority, that John would not die before the return of Christ. But the text doesn’t say that, does it? All it says is that the saying spread among the brothers, not that it was taught by the apostles. All that had to happen was that Jesus’ actual words were somehow relayed among the brothers, and then the misunderstanding of those words became a rumor that took on a life of its own. That’s far different than saying that the apostles themselves taught such a thing, claiming Jesus’ authority to do so. So there is no parallel between this event and the false prophecies of the JW organization.
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  39

  WT November 15, 2013 on jw.org

  by Gayle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how can we maintain.

  a waiting attitude?

  article,,just to wait and wait and wait.

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  NeonMadman

  I thought this part of the magazine was pretty scary (page 20, par. 17):

  Elders who are reading this article can draw some useful conclusions from the account we have just considered: (1) The most practical step that we can take to prepare for the coming attack of “the Assyrian” is that of strengthening our faith in God and helping our brothers to do the same. (2) When “the Assyrian” attacks, the elders must be absolutely convinced that Jehovah will deliver us. (3) At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith.

  Kool-aid, anyone?
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  2

  Watchtower magazines 1950 and forward

  by ++Link++ in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am new to this site and found it by searching for old wt magazines.

  i've noticed that i'm easily able to find wt magazine downloads from 1881-1949, but it seems that anything from 1950 and on (except for the really new stuff) is incredibly hard to find.

  am i mistaken in this?

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  NeonMadman

  The Watchtowers from 1950 forward and Awakes from 1970 forward are found on the official WT Library CD-ROM. If you Google and ask around you can probably find a site to download it from.
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  28

  100% pure unadulterated speculation - what changes would a "New New World Tranlsation" contain?

  by sir82 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  on this thread:.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/257481/1/i-cant-find-any-bibles-seems-to-be-a-shortage.

  some (well, me, mostly) are speculating that the wts is planning to distribute a "new new world translation" some time soon.. if that is true, what changes do you think they would include?.

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  NeonMadman

  As speculated in the other thread, I could see them making a less literal,
  “thought for thought”, “easy to read” version, in the guise of encouraging Bible reading. Sort of like the NIV or even the Living Bible. They would not need to know any other language but English to make this version…they could use the present NWT as their source document, like they do for non-English versions of the NWT. All the pesky verses that cause questions in the rank and file could be paraphrased away.

  The same thought had occurred to me, though I can also see where that might come back and bite them on the butt. They have advertised the NWT as being easier to read than the King James because it uses modern language. But that's really not the case. It doesn't use all the "thees" and "thous," it's true, but the language is very stilted and many of the terms used are at least somewhat archaic. And the wording in many verses sounds downright weird, very Fred Franz-like. To actually read the NWT is quite difficult, probably even harder than the KJV. As a result, JWs use the Bible for proof-texting, not reading of long sections or whole books. If they came out with an easy-to-read Bible version, the JWs might actually start reading the Bible rather than the Watchtower publications, and then they might well discover how bogus the WTS' doctrines are. How many JWs, for example, have read the entire book of Romans rather than just turning to proof texts? And of those who did, how many can say they understood it? If someone really understood Paul's message in Romans, I don't see how they could remain a JW.
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  18

  What's Da Word On Weed, Mon?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i come to this site as my one-stop-shopping guide to scandals and controversy within watchtowerland ( much of which is about as real as world of warcraft).

  i'm surprized i haven't read anything about marijuana and 'the truth".. weed is getting legalized all over the place and california, in particular, is loaded with whacked-out witnesses.

  since it can be prescribed as a medical treatment (here and there), i imagine the wts might have to do some doctrinal gymnastics to df folks for using it.

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  NeonMadman

  Tobacco is legal in most places and they DF people for that, why should weed be any different? It's "mind altering," therefore it's pharmakia and using it will invite the demons to eat your brain.
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  17

  Talking to a JW extremist

  by Kool Jo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i had a conversation with a jw whom i communicate with via skype...the conversation went like this:.

  kool jo: hey there, how have you been keeping?.

  they're imperfect, but we need to obey them regardless.. kool jo: ok, i see.

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  NeonMadman

  He doesn't seem so extreme to me; sounds like a typical JW. Follow the organization no matter what.

  Though I think when he said regarding the WTS predicting the end in 2014, " They'll never do that...remember Kool Jo, nobody knows when that would occur!" I would have been unable to restrain myself from saying something like "Then why did they do it so many times in the past?" Of course, then he probably would never have talked to me again...
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  22

  Can Anointed Members Be Disfellowshiped?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since the anointed class used to be the faithful and discreet slave, i wondered if and how they can be disciplined through being disfellowshiped?

  aren't they given a little more latitude in how they interpret scriptures and in what they say?

  do people in kingdom halls who have anointed members defer to them in any way?

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  NeonMadman

  I don't know how people announce these things to the elders, nor what happens if the elders don't agree.

  There's no announcement. One simply partakes of the bread and wine at the Memorial. If the elders don't agree, tough for them, it's not for them to decide. According to JW theology, it is a personal matter that God reveals to the individual. That doesn't mean the elders might not make life difficult for the person if they disagree, but it would have to be in other ways, not because of the person's profession of anointing.

  Which is more prestigious? Being an elder or being a member of the heavenly class?

  Probably being an elder. It certainly carries more power and influence, especially since the "new light" about the F&DS

  Are there cases where someone declares and then is badmouthed by members in the congregation?

  Probably, since JWs will bad-mouth anybody in the congregation who's different. But I'm not personally familiar with any instances,

  I understand declaring when you're not really a member of that class is a serious sin. If you do everything else right, but are wrong about that, would Jehovah forgive you? Or would you forfeit your resurrection?

  According to their theology, one who partakes unworthily eats and drinks his own destruction. They understand "partaking unworthily" to mean partaking if one is not truly anointed. Obviously, if one does this deliberately, there would be little hope unless he or she repented before Armageddon.

  Finally, after becoming a Jehovah's Witness, how long does it take before you're informed that you are of that class? Are we talking days, months or years?

  The only one who informs you, according to their understanding is Jehovah through the holy spirit. He can inform you at any time and in any way that he wants. It might be immediately upon baptism, or after many years of faithful service.

  Understand that I do not agree with their theology; I'm merely trying to answer your questions as a JW might.