it was truly a joy to see br.
and sister "--------".
last night, after 5 years of not attending meetings.. it was the loving sheparding our elder body provided .
Or, putting it another way, they never broke completely free of Watchtower brainwashing, and have now been dragged back to the meetings with much arm-twisting by the elders, under threat of shunning by family and friends.
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
this topic was inspired by the can you sue the watchtower... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=21122&site=3.
it appears that the legal defense of the society is based on voluntary association, and based on that membership a person is by law subject to the eclessiastical tribunals (judicial committees) of jehovah's witnesses.
it immediately brings to mind the fact that many of us began association or were baptized while still minors.
What do you think? Is it a loophole?
Maybe, but only if you annul your membership immediately after reaching the age of majority.
Under normal contract law (if I remember correctly from Business Law 101 and 102), a minor who enters into a contract can annul that contract. However, if he continues to act under that contract after attaining the age of majority (say, by making payments on an installment purchase), then he has affirmed the contract as an adult, and is bound by it just as if he had been an adult when he entered into it.
So, applying this to the JW thing, it is conceivable that one baptized as a minor might be able to annul his baptism up to the time of his reaching majority. For example, if you were baptized at 12, and 18 is the age of majority in your area, you could annul your baptism under this theory up until your 18th birthday, or within a reasonable time thereafter, provided you had not acted as one of Jehovah's Witnesses after turning 18.
What might constitute "acting as one of Jehovah's Witnesses"? I suspect that one could make the argument that attending meetings is not sufficient in itself, since meeting attendance is essentially a passive pursuit, but engaging in and reporting field service almost certainly would. Likewise giving parts on a meeting or helping out at a quick-build project.
The problem with all this is that these are procedures that might reasonably be expected to be followed in a court of law. The JW's have their own law, and any legal argument you might make of this sort isn't likely to affect their shunning policy toward you. It might, however, help to use this sort of reasoning if you were actually involved in litigation over a disfellowshipping.
But then, I'm not a lawyer; I could be wrong...
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
Northern New Jersey here. Still looking to meet up with some local XJW's.
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
see http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/key_findings.htm.
some highlights.... jw's famous for their apostates ;-) almost 1/3rd leave!...
"some groups such as mormons and jehovah's witnesses appear to attract a large number of converts ("in-switchers"), but also nearly as large a number of apostates ("out-switchers").
I find it interesting under the "Marital Status" chart that 3% of Jehovah's Witnesses are said to be single, but cohabiting.
Has there been "new light" on fornication?
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
i thought it might be a good idea to find out at what age or after how long we descided to leave the watchtower.. prehaps we my find a patern in it which we could use .. i think what we need to know are ,.
1.age you left the watchtower.
(or age you found out it was wrong).
Neonmadman----So good to see that smiling face again( BRCI Kitchener-)great to see your
doing well.
Amazing Grace!! how sweet the sound!!
Good to hear from you. Heard anything about this year's BRCI? I'd like to attend again.
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
the recent post on how we felt about apostates when we were dubs made me remember something, which i touched on in the post.
when i was 11 my entire damn family visited bethel in brooklyn.
there was a grey-haired older fellow that stayed outside the facility yelling at the top of his lungs.
Then we had Jesus for a summer as well. Incredibly well built hispanic guy who beleived he was Jesus Christ. Walked around with his top off, blue jeans or shorts and carrying his large leather bible preaching the end of the world and that the Watchtower was part of the beast and was to be destroyed.
Maybe you should have listened to him. After all, he was right about the Watchtower being part of the "beast"!!
[8>]
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
the recent post on how we felt about apostates when we were dubs made me remember something, which i touched on in the post.
when i was 11 my entire damn family visited bethel in brooklyn.
there was a grey-haired older fellow that stayed outside the facility yelling at the top of his lungs.
I remember a guy like that who was there when I visited Bethel in 1972. He was standing outside, basically shouting at the building, though I don't recall him accosting any passersby. I, along with a small group from my congregation, was getting a private tour from a friend, who was a Gilead student. He said that the guy had been a JW but got mad and left 'the truth' because they didn't make him an elder (or congregation servant, or whatever position it was back then).
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
i thought it might be a good idea to find out at what age or after how long we descided to leave the watchtower.. prehaps we my find a patern in it which we could use .. i think what we need to know are ,.
1.age you left the watchtower.
(or age you found out it was wrong).
Age at baptism: 17 (converted, not raised in it; started studying at 14)
Age when I started to realize the WT was wrong: 25
Age when I stopped going to meetings, mostly: 43
Age when I stopped going completely and forever: 48
I'll be 50 next Monday, February 11.
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
does anyone have any ideas on how to find a friend?
this is a childhood friend that i have not heard of for 12 years.
are there any free websites that can run a search on people (even if they do not have an email address)?
If the long-lost friend is a JW, there's a web page called "Searching for Long Lost JWs and Ex-JWs" at http://disc.server.com/Indices/46743.html.
Not sure how well-known it is, but it's worth a glance.
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
.......get out of the borg.
she always had nagging doubts during her 10 years as a jw, and when she asked me about why i was not going to meetings anymore she herself started to see the light at the end of the tunnel and gradually asked me more and more questions to help herself out.
now she's faded out completely, is enjoying her newfound freedom, and tonight just told me that the more reprehensible jw's are "shitheads in sheeps' clothing.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I count her as an unBible study?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Only if you don't enter the time on your service slip and don't turn it in.
I'm having a flashback to my DC Comics reading days (which, to be perfectly honest, haven't ended yet). Have we finally begun to delineate the behavior of Jehovah's Witnesses on the Bizarro World?
Tom
"The truth was obscure, too profound and too pure; to live it you had to explode." ---Bob Dylan
