antioch if it were the same as the 1st century i would not need to point people to 1914 and the Faithful Slave in order to gain salvation. when my grandfather lived, he was of the generation that the witnesses identified as the generation that would not pass away it did and he did. it made no difference to him or his generation what they preached.
Ucantnome
JoinedPosts by Ucantnome
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310
How I recently handled JWs at my door
by Christian guy inthe jws stopped by my house a couple weeks ago on a saturday morning.
i knew that with others most likely waiting for them out in the car they probably did not then have much time to engage in any serious conversation.
so i let them talk while i feigned interest in what they had to say.
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Knowledge by Proxy
by braincleaned inwhatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.
we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.
but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.
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Ucantnome
braincleaned i think tec's answer is better than I could give.
i'm no scholar. i never used to read the Watchtower and Awake and have no college education. An older brother used to say once he looked at the cover of the magazines he knew what they would say and i never read the bible from cover to cover because i already know the ending.
however in my Vines under the word Faith it says,
"firm persuasion," a conviction based upon hearing (akin to peitho, "to persuade"), is used in the NT always of "faith in God or Christ, or things spiritual."
In Acts 8 we find the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip. In verse 35 it tells us that Philip declared to him the Good News about Christ and then he was baptized. I understand that the Ethiopian eunuch was reading Isaiah 53 which has reference to "my servant"
I think I am right in saying that in Romans 10:17 the apostle Paul is quoting from Isaiah 53.
In Ray Franz book In Search of Christian Freedom in the chapter The Greatness of the Good News. He cites the scripture in Galatians 1:6 from the Jerusalem Bible where it says.
I am astonished at the promptness with which you have turned away from the one who called you and have decided to follow a different version of the Good News.
and on page 539 under the subheading The Foundation and Essence of the Good News talking of the apostles and other Christian writers
They consistently pointed to Christ's ransom sacrifice, his victory over kings sin and death on behalf of all mankind, the authority the Father has given to his resurrected Son to liberate from the wages of sin and death all those who put faith in him.
He goes on to say,
That was-and is- the good news the Bible itself brings us. The Biblical good news does not draw attention to, nor its it tied up with, some date, whether 1914 or any other date, not does it attract by offers of alluring physical and material benefits "just around the corner." It is tied up with an event, the event in which God's Son fulfilled his primary mission as the Messiah and gave his life on our behalf, thereafter being resurrected to God's right hand and serving as our advocate there.
In the book Man's Salvation Out of World Distress At Hand (1975 Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society) after talking about Isaiah 52/53 and the servant and the apostle Paul on page 47 it says this.
The glorification of Jesus Christ in heaven after his extraordinary sufferings as a man on earth was good news, Gospel, Evangel. "Nevertheless,"writes the apostle Paul with special reference to his own people, "they did not all obey the good news. For Isaiah says: 'Jehovah, who put faith in the thing heard [from us? So faith follows the thing heard. In turn the thing heard is through the word about Christ." -Romans 10:16,17
The following paragraph on page 48 I think is important for the point I want to make and so I will quote most of it.
"A similar thing can be said today, "They did not all obey the good news." This, even after the Christian witnesses of Jehovah have spent more than sixty years in proclaiming that the "times of the Gentiles" ended in the autumn of 1914 amid the first world war and theat then Jehovah's "Servant" received a new elevation by being exalted to the throne of the Messianic kingdom.
It goes on to say a little later in the paragraph.
"The good news about the Messianic kingdom of Jehovah's "Servant" is better news today than it was nineteen hundred years ago, in apostolic times. In the face of the relatively small proportion of the world's population that has put faith in the "thing heard [from] us" or proclaimed by us, it can truthfully be said: "They did not all obey the good news." This explains the saddening state of the world of mankind today."
A couple of pages earlier at the beginning of the chapter page 46 it says
"The kings of this present generation of mankind will 'stare in amazement' at he coming display that will be presented by the Messianic "Servant" of his changed position in God's organization"
It says the 'present generation'.
Our faith in the good news as preached by the apostle's is like a title deed, an assurance a gaurantee as Paul says in Romans 5 we have been made right with God because of our faith.
I think faith in anything else could be damaging.
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141
Knowledge by Proxy
by braincleaned inwhatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.
we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.
but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.
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Ucantnome
Romans 10;17 says faith comes from hearing
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141
Knowledge by Proxy
by braincleaned inwhatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.
we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.
but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.
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Ucantnome
I think it's more than emotion
Take my daughter as an example she is studying for a phd in theology she's also a christian she joined the Anglican's recently. she's not studying biology or something else and responding emotionally to wanting some belief in God. she reads many things historical and philosophical and theological and has come to a conclusion to join a church. Not an emotional response in my view.
'Augustine wrote, No one believes anything unless one first thought it believable' (The Spirit of Early Christian Thought. Robert Louis Wilken)
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Categories of Former Jehovah's Witnesses
by neverendingjourney ini was never disfellowshipped, but it's been about 10 years since i was an active jw.
i've made an occasional meeting or half-day at an assembly here or there, strictly at the behest of family (maybe once a year), but i'm completely disconnected.
more importantly, mentally i'm 100% free.. we all have a tendency to project our views and beliefs onto others, and tending to believe that other former jws share our views is no different.
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Ucantnome
i don't fit into any category
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Goodbye JWD/JWN (my last post)
by slimboyfat inafter some considerable thought i have decided that i will no longer post on this forum because i want to return to jehovah.
thank you for all the kindness and many interesting discussions over the years.
i wish you all well in the future and the decisions you make.
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Ucantnome
I think i might go back. Some say they miss me. I was always good at murmuring and someone needs to do it.
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141
Knowledge by Proxy
by braincleaned inwhatever our convictions are, we all have one thing in common; we have learned them from other sources.. we have knowledge by proxy... we didn't find things out all by ourselves.
we let trusted sources talk for us.. belief is not something that you choose.
but if there is no elephant, i do not "choose" to believe it isn't there either.
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Ucantnome
i have evidence in my life for the things i believe and i may not have a great education but i'm not stupid.
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The murmuring phase is the beginning of an ex-JWs progression towards fading.
by Stand for Pure Worship ini suppose part of the fascination i have with this board is, the exotic nature of those making up the member population.
i say exotic because, as you yourselves will agree with, folks such as yourselves don't hang around the christian congregation for long upon making the decision that truth is not for you.
(rom 1:25) this "fading" thing spoken of here likely plays a role into why christians such as me find the average ex-jw to be a bit fascinating.
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Ucantnome
you mention Paul warned against murmuring, and Christ warned against false prophets.
It's sort of, what should i do, say (murmur) something to someone we know who is a friend as it could be mistaken for apostasy by some or listen to the people who i think maybe false prophets whilst we contemplate Korah. It's difficult.
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Why does it matter?
by tenyearsafter ini have been on this forum for a number of years now, and one thing that seems to be a persisting theme is the "battle" between atheists and believers.. what i have not understood is the extent to which the supporters of either side engage in showing their position to be the correct one...and in turn debunking and demeaning the opposing position, or in many cases, insulting the intelligence of the holder of opposing belief.
i guess the simple question is, why?
does it really matter, or cause harm to be a supporter of either side of the coin?
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Ucantnome
i don't think it matters. I think most on this forum have at least some education and have heard about Christ and i think atheists seem happy to live their lives without God.
(some education is me)
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Ucantnome
yes