heyo,.
your favorite garrett here.
so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.
The brothers also appreciated the candor of this same talk, which acknowledged the Society’s responsibility for some of the disappointment a number felt regarding 1975
Some?
This was the Year book published by the Watchtower who had taught about the 6000 years. Starting back in the 1800's. and they say brothers appreciated that they took responsibility for 'some' of the disappointment.
Maybe they spoke to the wrong brothers. lol.
heyo,.
your favorite garrett here.
so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.
But just like everything else, those JW’s that were new or didn’t understand the premise took 1975 to mean the fulfillment of Christ presence and overstepped their expectations, by overshadowing what had been published earlier.
this was from your earlier post SimonSays this is from the Watchtower that you mentioned of March 1980
In saying "anyone", the Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.'
It includes all disappointed ones including those who published the material. Why would they be disappointed if it was only new ones who had overstepped their expectations?
heyo,.
your favorite garrett here.
so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.
SimonSays
Research the Watchtower March 15, 1980 pages 17-18 U.S. version
I have the Watchtower that you mention and it quotes the 1976 where it says
'...it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises." In saying "anyone", the Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah's Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.'
I don't have the yearbook at hand.
I don't think it had anything to do with 'but that his own understanding' I didn't come up with the 6000 years I wasn't alive in 1886 when it was tied to 1874 or in the 1940's when it was moved to the 1970. I understood they were appointed to do a job
My salvation was tied i understood to supporting Christ brothers, doing good to them, the primary way was supporting them in the preaching work. They were the appointed commissioned ones and at the time of this Watchtower they were still teaching that the generation that saw the events of 1914 would not pass away and my salvation was tied to spreading this as it was in the front of the Awake.
heyo,.
your favorite garrett here.
so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.
SimonSays
But just like everything else, those JW’s that were new or didn’t understand the premise took 1975 to mean the fulfillment of Christ presence and overstepped their expectations,
I remember in 1975 the field service overseer saying on a Thursday night meeting that we only have months left. in another congregation some years earlier according to my father who attended a elder meeting where the presiding overseer expressed concern that some were not expecting the end by 75. These were not new JW's they were appointed by holy spirit as older men in a spiritual way.
Admittedly you do get some with maybe shall I say 'apostate' leanings who do not accept the spiritual food from the faithful slave,.
heyo,.
your favorite garrett here.
so, i'm about to have an elder tell me allll about the failed 1975 doctrine.
Ephesians 3:11 This is according to the eternal purpose that he formed in connection with the Christ, Jesus our Lord, by means of whom we have this freeness of speech and free access with confidence through our faith in him. (NWT)
I think is a key scripture regarding 1975.
SimonSays mentions the book Life Everlasting and I remember discussing this with an elder some years ago when he came to discuss something i'd said. The book published in 1974 God's "Eternal Purpose" Now Triumphing For Man's Good on page 9 mentions Ephesians 3:11 and how in the Emphatic Diaglott it reads "according to a plan of the ages, which he formed" Based on this different translation the Watchtower of 1881 published an article The Plan of the Ages and gave and explanation of the Chart of the Ages evidently a similar chart was in the book The Divine Plan of the Ages published in 1886.
There is I believe a connection therefore between this book in 1974 with the words Eternal Purpose in the title and the book in 1886 with the words Divine Plan in.
The book in 1974 I don't believe mentions the date 1975 however it does talk about the 7th creative day and that Armageddon will not be part of the last thousand years of the 7th creative day but will occur before it and that 6000 years of the 7000 years had almost expired.
page 131
"The first half or 'evening' period of God's seventh creative 'day' was now closing, 3,500 years from the creation of Adam and Eve. The morning of this creative 'day' was due to begin at 526 B.C.E."
This was under the heading, "Morning of the seventh Creative day begins 526 B.C.E."
Page 51
"Evening of the Seventh Creative Day begins 4026 B.C.E."
Page 53
"At the beginning of this 'seventh day' almost six thousand years ago God 'proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred.'"
The last chapter of the book is "Making the Seventh Creative 'Day' Sacred" page 187.
on page 189 talking about Satan the Devil it reads,
"For six thousand years he and his seed have been allowed to continue their effort to make it seem to be a cursed day unsacred... During the thousand years that the Great Serpent and his demon seed are abyssed, Jehovah will reverse all the wickedness."
Page 190
"...God's seventh creative day will end up blessed, sacred, sanctified. Jehovah having blessed that day six thousand years ago..."
Page 186
"With all his earthly seed destroyed at Har-Magedon,"
it then asks the question "Are the original serpent and his invisible demonic seed to be left on the loose in the vicinity of our earth down to which they have been ousted from heaven? No!"
"By removing the Serpent and his demons from the nieghborhood of the earth and hurling them into the abyss and sealing them up there, bound as with chains for the next thousand years. Revelation 20:1-3 pictures this, not as a part of the war at Har-magedon, but as a follow up of that war."
In the Watchtower publication God's Kingdom of A Thousand Years Has Approached pages 206-211 it tells how the editor and publisher of Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence calculated the presence of parousia of the heavenly Bridegroom began in the year 1874 based on the six thousand years since Adam and Eve sinned.
On page 209 it says that this was changed in 1943 in the book The Truth Shall Make You Free and this moved the six thousand years into the 1970's
So 1975 arrived at by the six thousand years calculation seems to have been the second time that the calculation of six thousand years had led to wrong conclusions. I think if one takes the dates given in the book and does the maths calculations with that Armageddon is not part of the last one thousand years of Christ's reign and the fact the book was published in 1974 in my opinion it is difficult to come to any other conclusion than that Armageddon must occur by the autumn of 1975 even though the date may not be given.
seriously.....even when you were 100% in "the truth", did you really believe in living forever?
?
yes I believed it was the truth we could live forever in a paradise earth I also had faith that I would be living in the thousand year reign of Christ a long time ago as did my father.
I think my father shared the view expressed here in Man's Salvation Out of World Distress At Hand! (1975 WTB&TS Page 28/29) after quoting the apostle Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15:18,19 and commenting that Paul the apostle had suffered much persecution for his preaching 'that if Paul were a liar, then as he wrote: ... "we are of all men most to be pitied." '
'After all that we have gone through since 1914, our generation would be, of all generations, the "most to be pitied"
Think of it, though! Worthy ones of this generation of mankind will be saved alive out of the rest of this world distress so as to survive the worst of it and enter into God's Messianic new system of things and not need a resurrection from the dead to life here on earth!'
Unfortunately he will need a resurrection although he lived more than his three score year and ten and was born more than a decade later after the first world war. Hopefully the resurrection hope preached by the Apostle Paul is a better hope than the one my father had and taught me.
i know many on here have lost faith in the bible , is it possible that is because ones do not have the right perspective regarding it .
we have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant .
i believe if we take an honest look at the bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters , it gives us some amount of bearings ( understanding ) , which without having such knowledge we would all be more like walking zombies in amanner of speaking , we would be lacking hope in something better , for surely something better is to come , how can we be sure , .
believe if we take an honest look at the Bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters ,
I was asked to swear on the bible this morning and it made me think of this thread I also read something on the BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-32303997 and thought about divorce and what I have understood the Bible to say about it one of my children done a dissertation on the subject. I think in discussing it with them the conclusion was, not a good idea. Makes me think of Matthew 24:13
i've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.
you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!
what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.
It really amazes me at how many people actually think the the WTS have been false prophets.
I understand that they claimed Ezekiel 24:24 where Ezekiel says he was a sign of someone to come was the dedicated baptised anointed who where proclaiming God's kingdom. Commissioned as the mouthpiece of Jehovah.
As this mouthpiece they said on page 286 of the book The Nations Shall Know That I am Jehovah -How?
'What a thrilling moment it will be when, during the coming " great tribulation" on this present system of things, the authentic news comes from all around the earth that the antitypical Jerusalem, Christendom, has fallen at the hands of Jehovah's executional forces. This will be a vindication of the modern-day Ezekiel class, to authenticate that they have not been a false prophet but have been a faithful "watchman" class in sounding out Jehovah's warning to Christendom.'
This warning I understood accompanied the good news that is being preached in fulfilment of Revelation 14:6.
I understood, and without looking it up I maybe mistaken, that Ezekiel was vindicated by what he foretold coming true.
He also had it happen within a specific time period that was indicated by the days he lay on his side facing a pot. (I think)
In the book I mention they said this on page 276 under the heading The report in verification sure to come!
'Their unbelief would in due time be blasted to pieces by the arrival of an authentic eyewitness of Jerusalem's downfall. ...
His authority as a true inspired prophet of Jehovah would have been established. As a "sign" man or as a "portent" of what was fast impending, he had not proved false,..
Is this not something thrilling for us to contemplate, namely, the fulfilment of this prophetic drama within our generation?'
Page 216
'Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom'
in the Watchtower June 1 1968 page 331 it says this
On the Joyful March to Mankind’s Millennium
'Arguing against a literal future millennial rule by Christ, some have claimed that such a teaching would chill the missionary ardour of Christians to make disciples of all nations. (Matt. 28:19,20) But not so! Today no people are more zealous in carrying out this missionary commission than are the Christian witnesses of Jehovah, who believe that the 1,000-year reign of Christ is literal and future. In comparatively few years these have grown to more than a million. Today they are carrying out this commission in 197 lands and islands of the sea and that in 169 languages. Last year they devoted 184 million hours to this work!
And no wonder. What good news they have to tell the people! They proclaim the good news that the millennial rule of Christ will begin with this generation and that it will mean ever so many blessings for the people :..'
In the book Man's Salvation Out of World Distress At Hand 1975 Watchtower Bible and Tract Society talking about Romans 10 and the good news it says this
Page 48.
A similar thing can be said today. "They did not all obey the good news." This, even after the christian witnesses of Jehovah have spent more than sixty years in proclaiming the the "times of the Gentiles" ended in the autumn of 1914 C.E. amis the first world war and that then Jehovah's "servant " recieved a new elevation by being exalted to the throne of the Messianic kingdom...
In the face of the relatively small proportion of the world's population that has put faith in the "thing Heard [from] us" or proclaimed by us, it can truthfully be said: "They did not all obey the good news
The Watchtower 1961 page 591 'Prophesying with the Loyal Organization' had this to say relating to Joel and the pouring out of holy spirit.
"'That organization for which we must look is the one that gives the proof of having God's spirit poured out upon it in these "last days" by doing the foretold prophesying, the 'preaching of this good news of God's kingdom in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations....The record points to the anointed remnant of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses.'
If you actually think that they have prophesied in telling future events of something completely new then you really need to go back and carefully read all the material
I don't think that the prophesying has to be new as the way I under the Watchtower article preaching the good news is prophesying. I also believe that the good news needs to be true and we have faith, the assured expectation of the things hoped for, faith mentioned in Romans 10, faith being like the title deed. I also think that the good news included the time period of the generation that saw the events of 1914 would see the end as Revelation 14 shows.
So I don't agree with you True to the End
i recently came across the very first kingdom song i ever heard.
twickenham, 1955. i was just a kid then of course, but i do recall the "buzz" that seemed to permeate everything, not dis-similar to that of an international rugby match.
people were smiling while singing their hearts out, the lunch-time queues for the cafeteria full of old friends getting re-aquainted, young lads and lasses eyeing one another and blushing furiously, sessions 2 untl 4 then 7 until 9.30 giving folk plenty of time to socialise.. where did it all go wrong?.
My father would often comment that in the early years in the truth, early 60's, they would come out of the meetings feeling so encouraged and uplifted as they walked home they felt as if they were walking on air.
I can't say I shared their sentiments. I was just glad to be going instead of coming.
One of my siblings, a pioneer, said a few years ago that when 75 ended something kind of died and it was never the same.
i've been lurking for about 3 months now and thought i'd better finally sign up.
you have all been an immense help to me as i have come to realize that this isn't the truth so i want to say a great big thank you!
what a crazy, emotional ride it is to finally face the truth about the doubts that i have carried for many years.
People here should grow up and stop being so self centered and looking at the bad in every thing
True to the End you probably weren't thinking of me when you typed this but I am one of the people here
I have not lost trust or faith in Jehovah and JWs as A GROUP of people.
I haven't lost faith in God either but I find it a little different with JW'S, especially regarding their preaching about God's Kingdom and 1914 and I think this involves faith.
As a group JWs ARE the only ones trying to do what God requires
As I lack faith in the preaching of God's Kingdom established in 1914 I would disagree with your statement.
