hello everybody, i studied with the jehovah's about 10 years ago, was never baptized, never a publisher, never really did anything, went to a few of the watchtime meetings.
my purpose at the time was a study on comparative religion, which i eventually became a student of in full practice.
of all the organizations i met with, the witnesses were the most friendly at first, welcoming me to ask many questions about the bible.
Possible San,
I would like to re-engage fire again, if possible. Or is that not possible? If not-possible, let me know, if possible, that would be great. We could even do something inherently pragmatic if you like, such as a world war II reinactment if you like, but only if it's possible with possible-san.
On a more serious note, I'd like to hear your treatise on the astral-theological nature of Jesus if you have one.
Shalom Aleichem
one of the things that most bothered me about the bible, is the narcasist, lunatic jehovah who orders killings of women, children, starts wars, etc....and the advent of peaceful jesus.
some people say that jehovah was a killer to protect "his" people, but couldn't a perfect, all-knowing god have found a way better then to walk on the earth and tell abraham to kill his first born son?.
on my spiritual journey, i now see how the earlier gods (roman, greek, pagan) are intertwined into the old testament.
More stories, basically, these things were all allegedly to have happened after his resurrection, (did we go into the fact that the four gospels all disagree upon the events surrounding his crucifixion and resurrection by the way?) - anyway, India may very well be one of the earliest places that the folklore and legend started to gain a following, that's entirely possible. Either way, once again, building a myth upon a myth is not surprising.
I know of a statue in New York City, on an island, of a woman, she carries a torch and wears a crown. Lady Liberty is her name I believe.
I also know of a 40 foot owl in California at the Bohemian Grove, all the U.S. Presidents visit it every now and then.
I also know of a large building in Brooklyn, dedicated to the Watchtower Society.
All these things are merely figments of mythological deities and superstitions.
one of the things that most bothered me about the bible, is the narcasist, lunatic jehovah who orders killings of women, children, starts wars, etc....and the advent of peaceful jesus.
some people say that jehovah was a killer to protect "his" people, but couldn't a perfect, all-knowing god have found a way better then to walk on the earth and tell abraham to kill his first born son?.
on my spiritual journey, i now see how the earlier gods (roman, greek, pagan) are intertwined into the old testament.
Mad Sweeney, once again, this all depends on which gospel verse your reading. Most of the synoptic gospels attempt to center focus on a Messianic figure that came to usher in the Kingdom of God, AT THAT TIME, "this generation shall not pass until...." and so on. The imminent establishment of the Kingdom was the focal point of Mark, Matthew and Luke, in that order chronologically. The secondary teachings were that of understanding the Torah, forgiveness, and of course all the agricultural statements about bearing seed, fruit, etc. The gospel of John of course was dealing more with the types and anti-types that are associated with deeper Jewish thought, "you must eat my flesh and drink my blood" of course, reciting the later Babylonian myths, the dualism, gnosticism, etc.
Where does the whole Buddha relationship step in? Only for a few insignificant literary points, if any.
"The Jesus we know" is contingent upon what view one takes of the character in the first place. The Jesus I know, for instance, is one who was to be the son of David, high priest of Melchizedek, son of man, Moshiach of Israel, who was to unite Judah and Israel (never did of course) and who was to establish the Kingdom of God at that time. Instead, he was tried by the Roman government (insurrection being the only credible charge at that time) and hung from a tree and died. The Markan account leaves him dead in a tomb, with no sitings or resurrection. That would be the earliest known gospel account written some 70 years after the alleged event occurred.
Of course, there really is no "Jesus that we know" because all we have is hearsay evidence to his existence. The point of comparing the literary figure with other literary figures lacks tact, but that is simply my opinion, and I am sure many will dispell it.
Shalom,
Andrew
one of the things that most bothered me about the bible, is the narcasist, lunatic jehovah who orders killings of women, children, starts wars, etc....and the advent of peaceful jesus.
some people say that jehovah was a killer to protect "his" people, but couldn't a perfect, all-knowing god have found a way better then to walk on the earth and tell abraham to kill his first born son?.
on my spiritual journey, i now see how the earlier gods (roman, greek, pagan) are intertwined into the old testament.
Concerning Jesus not jiving with Jehovah, I'm not really seeing that according to the tales... Jesus said many things that eclipse (no pun intended) the dark side of the YHWH character quite well...
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' Mat 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.
If anything the aforementioned statements takes the law of YHWH to an even higher and more difficult state.
Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Mat 10:36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.
Luk 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.'"
Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, Mat 13:42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 18:8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. Mat 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire. Joh_15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.' And last but not least, my favorite, simply because it's quite hypocritical, in John 8 this same character allegedly forgave an adulterating woman and let her walk free without being stoned, while here in Revelation, a different approach? Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Did the woman in John 8 repent? Instead the Jesus of John 8 seemed avid on attacking those who were going to punish her... Strange book indeed...
i would like to invite those of you with youtube accounts to my channel, i am trying to get it up and going with lots of subscribers.. http://www.youtube.com/user/monseurmallard.
somehow on this site my avatar got mispelled, but i am the curator at a bedlam hospital for the insane, from an edgar allan poe novel.. here is a video i uploaded from a friend's channel, called "what would jesus not do?".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofjkl-3sne.
I would like to invite those of you with Youtube accounts to my channel, I am trying to get it up and going with lots of subscribers.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MonseurMallard
Somehow on this site my avatar got mispelled, but I am the curator at a Bedlam hospital for the insane, from an Edgar Allan Poe novel.
Here is a video I uploaded from a friend's channel, called "What would Jesus NOT do?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfjkl-3SNE
Shalom
one of the things that most bothered me about the bible, is the narcasist, lunatic jehovah who orders killings of women, children, starts wars, etc....and the advent of peaceful jesus.
some people say that jehovah was a killer to protect "his" people, but couldn't a perfect, all-knowing god have found a way better then to walk on the earth and tell abraham to kill his first born son?.
on my spiritual journey, i now see how the earlier gods (roman, greek, pagan) are intertwined into the old testament.
Sizemik,
I wasn't suggesting that one was the other or vice versa, just showing that there are just as many differences as there may be similarities. Although for all intensive purposes, when it comes to religious stories, we are after all dealing with hearsay evidence of the past lives of ancient scribes and authors.
Unless a deity actuall reveals itself first hand to any of us, we're not taking the deity's word for it, we're taking the word of the established religion or institution telling us it is so.
one of the things that most bothered me about the bible, is the narcasist, lunatic jehovah who orders killings of women, children, starts wars, etc....and the advent of peaceful jesus.
some people say that jehovah was a killer to protect "his" people, but couldn't a perfect, all-knowing god have found a way better then to walk on the earth and tell abraham to kill his first born son?.
on my spiritual journey, i now see how the earlier gods (roman, greek, pagan) are intertwined into the old testament.
Morgan,
Take a look at the dates of the lives of those historians on that article. Jesus died in the year 40AD or so at the latest, not one of those historians were alive yet. Josephus is disqualified by almost all non-bias comparative religious scholars, as it is well known that most of his work is spurious.
There are numerous historians of contemporary value that never mention Jesus of Nazareth during the time which these events would have allegedly occurred. It should startle any Christian believer, really. Morgan did you read the article I posted on the other thread?
http://nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
We have numerous credible historians who mention even the most trivial of things in the early first century, but no mention of a Jesus from Nazareth. No mention of numerous dead bodies coming to life out of caves and appearing to people in Jerusalem, as the 3 lines in Matthew 27 would have us believe. Which brings up another point, why is it that only the gospel of Matthew mentions this dramatic event? Surely the thousands of alleged witnesses and Romans would have reported back to Rome these glorious events. But they didn't. Because, they never happened.
one of the things that most bothered me about the bible, is the narcasist, lunatic jehovah who orders killings of women, children, starts wars, etc....and the advent of peaceful jesus.
some people say that jehovah was a killer to protect "his" people, but couldn't a perfect, all-knowing god have found a way better then to walk on the earth and tell abraham to kill his first born son?.
on my spiritual journey, i now see how the earlier gods (roman, greek, pagan) are intertwined into the old testament.
Sizemik, good point. However, I think the validity of historicity trumps everything else, since we're dealing with literature as the primary source of our investigation. If the actual historical information about a subject is lacking, such as any good contemporary historical document to establish the identity of this Yeshua of Nazareth, or Nazarene as the writer of Matthew asserts, than we can probably surmise all sorts of coincidences in the 100's of gospel accounts of his life with that of other savior figures.
Personally I think one must separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to reading any piece of literature, specifically the gospels, epistles and apocryphal texts of the second and third centuries. I gain all sorts of lessons from certain parts and pieces of the bible, and I wouldn't abandon them from my bookshelf simply because there is a lot of wisdom in the minds of so many ancients that comprised them. For the same reason I wouldn't abandon the Quran, Avesta or any other ancient text, simply because to me it holds value as a way to look into the minds of those who lived long ago.
one of the things that most bothered me about the bible, is the narcasist, lunatic jehovah who orders killings of women, children, starts wars, etc....and the advent of peaceful jesus.
some people say that jehovah was a killer to protect "his" people, but couldn't a perfect, all-knowing god have found a way better then to walk on the earth and tell abraham to kill his first born son?.
on my spiritual journey, i now see how the earlier gods (roman, greek, pagan) are intertwined into the old testament.
The bottom line is that Buddha never quoted from the Torah, Buddha never preached the Shema creed to the scribes and Pharisees, Buddha never spoke to Elijah and Moses in a transfiguration, Buddha never stood up to any money changers at a Jewish temple, Buddha never rebuked the Pharisees and told them to obey YHWH instead of their own Talmudic traditions (Mark Chapter 7).
This entire premise suggests a lot of parallels but I think the key to understanding the differences is what matters more. We're talking about a figure that is represented as the seed of David, the high priest of Melchizedek, "Son of God", "son of man" and we can definitely say that Buddha didn't die on a cross, he wasn't entombed for three days and he wasn't resurrected.
As far as the immaculate conception goes, Buddha's mother was not a virgin. Many of these other alleged similarities are simply coincidental at best, and many of them are both forced and farced to the degree of waffle.
hello everybody, i studied with the jehovah's about 10 years ago, was never baptized, never a publisher, never really did anything, went to a few of the watchtime meetings.
my purpose at the time was a study on comparative religion, which i eventually became a student of in full practice.
of all the organizations i met with, the witnesses were the most friendly at first, welcoming me to ask many questions about the bible.
I have no ego to bruise, as I rarely engage in debate anymore, simply knowing the facts of Xtianity's history, the damage it's done, the pograms, crusades, violence, arguments, countless denominations, etc. It's just a mess. It will be a great day when religion is finally abolished and logical free thinking people will be able to strive to higher goals, relying on the real true eternal life granted to us already, progeny.
Why we cannot simply be happy as a society and people without fear or religion is beyond me at this point. People just seem to be too emotionally attached to existence, and they demand more from God than what they've already been given. Accepting that this is life, it's all we have or need is the most humbling experience a person can have. It's quite fulfilling to me to know that when I die, I will not have to worry about anything, no punishment, no invisible man in the clouds to face, no folklore whatsoever reserved in my heart keeping me from sanity.
The Jewish religion actually has a stronghold on this concept, they don't believe in any kind of "hell" or place of torment or judgment, just Sheol, the grave, a permanent place of rest for the dead. The whole "resurrection" concept of course is entirely Xtian in nature. I was raised in a Jewish neighborhood, met with many Rabbis when I was younger, very nice people, actually, and not one of them was an extremist about their religion. The best part about them is they don't prosyletize, whereas Xtian missionaries seem to constantly be going door to door, baffle-gagging their way around with their religious tracts full of ballyhoo.
