those of us who've been around long enough will understand the title.
what we are looking for here are examples of the society's lack of taste.. for example, i'm sure our kingdom hall wasn't the only one in the 70's with dark brown carpeting that rose halfway up the walls and a nice trendy rubber plant in the corner of the platform!.
nic'.
Those of us who've been around long enough will understand the title. What we are looking for here are examples of the Society's lack of taste.
For example, I'm sure our Kingdom Hall wasn't the only one in the 70's with dark brown carpeting that rose halfway up the walls and a nice trendy rubber plant in the corner of the platform!
Nic'
i was thinking about this the other day.
when i was a jw there were always stories circulating around concerning a certain entertainer hating jws.
i suppose it was some sort of jw urban legend but it goes like this.... a jw couple is at a concert by some artist while in another town for an assembly.
Here in the UK, that story did the rounds in the 80's and early 90's. The artist in question though was Annie Lennox - lead singer with Eurythmics.
I think the whole thing may have got started because she is a self proclaimed 'white witch'.
"Sweet dreams are made of this..........."
Also, has anyone heard of Jasper Carrot? He takes a regular dig at JW's on his shows though apparently it is all a bit of fun - his wife is a Sister.
Speak up you Brummies!
Nic'
i hope you never heard of this one.
in 1806, at leeds, a hen laid eggs bearing the words, "christ is coming.
" many visited the spot and "got religion.
Assuming those eggs had originally been laid by that hen, would that make them 'Born Again'?
Nic'
sect plans to clone child, raelians tell u.s. congress.
procedure ban debated.
jan cienski.
Sect plans to clone child, Raelians tell U.S. Congress
Procedure ban debated
Jan Cienski
National Post
Evan Vucci, The Associated Press
Claude Vorilhon, also known as Rael, founder of the Quebec-based Raelian movement, is sworn in on Capitol Hill yesterday.
WASHINGTON - The head of the Quebec-based Raelian movement, which believes humans were cloned by aliens, told the U.S. Congress yesterday that scientists affiliated with his sect intend to clone a dead child as soon as possible.
"Nothing should stop cloning, which should be 100% free," Rael told a skeptical congressional committee looking into whether the United States should join 26 other countries and ban the untried procedure.
George W. Bush, the U.S. President, hopes to sign a law halting human cloning before it begins, his spokesman said. "The President believes that no research -- no research -- to create a human being should take place in the United States," said Ari Fleischer.
A clone is produced when the genetic material is removed from an egg and replaced by material from another adult cell. The first successful clone was Dolly the sheep, created by a group of Scottish scientists in 1997. Since then, cattle, mice, pigs and goats have been successfully cloned.
But most scientists insist it is much too early to begin cloning humans, noting animal cloning has at least a 95% failure rate. Even those animals that survive, such as Dolly, are plagued with severe problems researchers have only begun to study.
"The great majority of human clones may be abnormal," warned Dr. Rudolf Jaenisch, professor of biology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "Humans are not guinea pigs."
While mainstream scientists are aghast at the idea, two groups say they plan to attempt human cloning within the next year or two.
In addition to the Raelians, a consortium led by Severino Antinori, an Italian fertility doctor whose previous claim to fame was helping a 62-year-old woman get pregnant, plans to open a cloning lab in an unidentified country.
Dr. Panos Zavos, a member of the consortium, appeared before the congressional committee and dismissed safety concerns, saying the cloning "genie is out of the bottle.
"Those that say stop it, those would not be the Columbuses that would take the bold step to discover America," he said. "We are talking about the development of a technology that can give an infertile and childless couple the right to reproduce and have a child. This is a human right."
The listening Congressmen were not convinced.
"Cloning is a form of playing God since it interferes with the natural order of creation," said Cliff Stearns, a Florida Republican. "To attempt such a technique on humans, which has caused deformities, large fetuses and premature deaths in sheep and cattle is the height of irresponsibility."
While Dr. Zavos, who runs a fertility clinic in Kentucky, has some medical credentials, the Raelians were viewed with even greater skepticism by the committee.
Rael claims that in 1973, when he was known as Claude Vorilhon, a French motorsports writer, he was kidnapped by aliens who had told him extraterrestrial scientists created the human race.
Rael says there are 50,000 followers of his free-love group, which is based about an hour north of Montreal. In 1997, the Raelians established Clonaid, a Bahamian-based company that began seeking cloning customers.
Last year, a couple whose 10-month-old son died from a heart defect paid US$500,000 to recreate their son, Brigitte Boisselier, the director of Clonaid and a Raelian bishop, told the committee.
"I couldn't accept it was over for our child," Dr. Boisselier read from a letter from the father, who has not revealed his name. "He deserves a chance to live."
Dr. Boisselier, wearing a necklace with the Raelian star symbol, black boots and a dress cut away to reveal her abdomen, said she has four scientists working at an undisclosed location in the United States on the cloning project. Her own daughter has volunteered to be a surrogate mother for a clone.
Rael, who wears an all-white outfit with shoulder pads and white patent leather shoes, admitted there may be early problems with cloning.
"Every scientific discovery was unsafe at the beginning," he said with an impish grin.
But his final goal is not simply cloning. He predicts scientists will soon learn how to download memories into new bodies, allowing people to live forever.
While Rael dreams of immortality, scientists warn his experiments will create nothing but suffering for cloned babies.
"It is simply unacceptable to subject humans to those risks," said Dr. Thomas Okarma, speaking on behalf of the Biotechnology Industry Organization.
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my dad asked the co about this one.
mat 27:52-53. and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, .
and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Bad Ass'
I wept, I truly, truly wept!
Ok this isn't in the same league but it is also a true story.
About a year ago we had a visiting speaker. Early thirties, I'd guess 3rd maybe even 4th generation society clone.
He was giving the talk 'Science or the Bible - Which can you Trust?'
He was one of those wide-eyed, 'isn't it wonderful how we are so blessed with understanding' type of brothers.
So he reaches the thorny issue of the dinosaurs. Gives the usual lines of reasoning, totally ignoring anything that would contradict his outline.
But then, for one brief shining moment, there was a glimmer of a free, independant thought surfacing from the depths of his finely tuned society mind. You have to pity the fellow, you see he was SO sincere. He SO wanted you to believe.
He looked up from his notes and this is more or less word for word what he said;
"You know, most scientists say that the dinosaurs died out millions of years ago but as Christians we look to the Bible for a reliable account of what really happened. It is obvious. The dinosaurs all perished in the flood of Noah's day of course!"
And then he moved on with barely a flicker of a response from the audience. I couldn't believe it!
I have actually given several public talks, including that one, and I know for a fact that even the Society would never put such a claim into print.
I approached the brother after the meeting, told him how much I enjoyed his talk [shame on me], and asked him where he got his references for the extinction of the dinosaurs by the flood?
All he could say was that he remembered reading it in one of the magazines - yeah right!
I couldn't get this out of my head. A couple of weeks later I was having a couple of pints at my local with my brother in law who is one of those rare breeds of elder - a decent man who manages to think for himself.
I brought up this Public Talk and the comments that the speaker had made.
This was my brother in law's straight response;
"But the dinosaurs DID die out in the flood!"
I give up.
Nic'
please listen.
im not the first to go through this, i wont be the last.. i was raised in the truth as a result of my mum starting a study when i was 4 years old.
that was in 1968. the hysteria of a 1975/armageddon was just beginning to take root and the sister who studied with my mum was 100% sure of it.
Well a hearty 'Thank You' to you all!
I can't deny that for a while there I felt as though I was on the edge of a cliff. It's not as though I would have done anything reckless, I have too much to live for, but sometimes it isn't until you've stood still for a while looking at the waves crashing beneath you that you realise where the real meaning in your life can be found.
Shit, that was heavy!
I promise to lighten up - how's this for a first, post traumatic, attempt?
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A particularly hard question...
A nun dies and goes to heaven. St. Peter says to her, "I'm sure you've lead a virtuous life, Sister, but before I can let you into heaven, you must answer one question. What," asks St. Peter,"were Eve's first words when she saw Adam?"
"Boy," says the nun, "that's a hard one."
"That's right!" says St. Peter, and the pearly gates open wide
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seriously, thanks for all your help and understanding - it is appreciated.
Nic'
please listen.
im not the first to go through this, i wont be the last.. i was raised in the truth as a result of my mum starting a study when i was 4 years old.
that was in 1968. the hysteria of a 1975/armageddon was just beginning to take root and the sister who studied with my mum was 100% sure of it.
Thank you all for your kindness it really has been overwhelming, nothing I read was “lame or frivolous”. I’ve seen more compassion on this board in 24 hours than I would experience from those ‘loving elders’ in 24 months.
I have been in several online communities for the past few years but have never shared my experience with anyone. As several of you have indicated, that’s a mistake. If anyone in a similar situation is reading this, please speak up!
Wendy said; “writing out your feelings is such a great cleansing”. So true, I should have done this ages ago.
Thanks also to the rest of you. Your suggestions will take a while to digest – you have all given me a lot to think about. I think the most valuable contribution I can make, the most important thing I have learned is this, don’t be a loner. Don’t bottle everything up and fear that no one will understand. It’s clear many do.
Humbled
Nic’
please listen.
im not the first to go through this, i wont be the last.. i was raised in the truth as a result of my mum starting a study when i was 4 years old.
that was in 1968. the hysteria of a 1975/armageddon was just beginning to take root and the sister who studied with my mum was 100% sure of it.
Please listen
There is nothing anyone can do to help. I’m not the first to go through this, I won’t be the last.
I was raised in the ‘Truth’ as a result of my Mum starting a study when I was 4 years old. That was in 1968. The hysteria of a 1975/Armageddon was just beginning to take root and the sister who studied with my Mum was 100% sure of it. [I know, I’ve listened to her talk extensively about it over the years].
I recall no birthdays, no Christmas parties and all the embarrassment of being ‘different’ at school. Being a kid wasn’t much fun!
Once I approached my teens a profound change took over me. Unlike many of my friends in the congregation, I took the Truth very seriously. I studied. I prayed. I formed a really close relationship with my God, Jehovah.
I used to hate myself for my weaknesses. I only auxiliary pioneered for 30 straight months – I knew I wasn’t as ‘spiritual’ as the Regular Pioneers.
I gave in to masturbation. More self-hatred. I was a wretch, weak and pathetic – how could Jehovah even look at me? Being a teenager wasn’t much fun!
At 19 I met a sister from a congregation some 20 miles away. Her father, the Presiding Overseer, refused to acknowledge me for more than 6 months. Why? He wanted his daughter to marry a nice English brother not some foreigner.
Well we dated by the rules [more or less!] On our wedding night in 1986 we were both still virgins!! I had fallen deeply in love with that young girl and she can still reduce me to a babbling fool whenever she wants to.
We have been blessed with three gorgeous, talented and balanced children.
I have found more happiness as a husband and father than I ever did as a child/teenager/single man.
Now everything I have worked hard at over the past fifteen years is under threat simply because I have learned to think for myself.
I stood down as a Ministerial Servant over two years ago. I put my last field service report in 16 months ago. I have taken my two sons off the ‘Theocratic’ Ministry School and tonight I will take my name off as well.
My ‘brothers & sisters’ look me upon as ‘weak’. The elders see me as a dangerous threat to be watched closely. My family are no longer invited out socially. My wife, who has done nothing to deserve it, often cries herself to sleep for fear of what will happen to us.
I live a life of deceit for her sake, fairly regular meeting attendance, a few bland comments at the group study – all to avoid being cast off.
I want to protect my family. I don’t want them to be abused by the system we grew up in but I cannot see a solution.
My children no longer carry the ‘blood cards’. What if anyone finds out?
I have stated openly to my wife that I no longer believe this is the ‘Truth’. What if she confides in anyone? I cannot discuss my fears with anybody face to face and neither can my wife. This is hell.
My children ask me questions. I always answer them honestly but I fear for what they may say to their witness friends.
The future looks bleak. I am sure I will become cut-off from my mother, brother and sisters. My wife’s family will disown me and I will become known as the guy who split the family.
No more family barbecues in the summer. No more meals out on anniversaries. My wife does NOT deserve this.
What do I do? Everyone that ever meant anything to me is still in the ‘Truth’.
I have never felt more alone.
Nic’
in the first book of the bible, guinness, god got tired of creating the world, so he took the sabbath off and this is what happened......... .
-- adam and eve were created from an apple tree.
-- noah's wife was called joan of ark.
In the first book of the Bible, Guinness, God got tired of creating the world, so he took the Sabbath off and this is what happened.........
-- Adam and Eve were created from an apple tree.
-- Noah's wife was called Joan of Ark.
-- Noah built an ark, which the animals come on to in pears.
-- Lot's wife was a pillar of salt by day, but a ball of fire by night.
-- The Jews were a proud people and throughout history they had trouble with the unsympathetic Genitals.
-- Samson was a strongman who let himself be led astray by a Jezebel like Delilah.
-- Samson slayed the Philistines with the ax of the Apostles.
-- Moses led the Hebrews to the Red Sea, where they made unleavened bread which is bread without any ingredients.
-- The Egyptians were all drowned in the dessert. Afterwards, Moses went up on Mount Cyanide to get the ten amendments.
-- The first commandment was when Eve told Adam to eat the apple.
-- The fifth commandment is to humor thy father and mother.
-- The seventh commandment is thou shalt not admit adultery.
-- Moses died before he ever reached Canada.
-- The greatest miracle in the Bible is when Joshua told his son to stand still and he obeyed him.
-- David was a Hebrew king skilled at playing the liar. He fought the
Finklesteins, a race of people who lived in Biblical times.
-- Solomon, one of David's sons, had 300 wives and 700 porcupines.
-- When Mary heard that she was the mother of Jesus, she sang the Magna Carta.
-- When the three wise guys from the east side arrived, they found Jesus in the manager.
-- Jesus was born because Mary had an immaculate contraption.
-- St. John, the blacksmith, dumped water on Jesus' head.
-- Jesus enunciated the Golden Rule, which says to do one to others before they do one to you.
-- He also explained, "man does not live by sweat alone."
-- It was a miracle when Jesus rose from the dead and managed to get the tombstone off the entrance.
-- The people who followed the Lord were called the decibels.
-- The epistles were the wives of the apostles.
-- One of the opossums was St. Matthew who was also a taximan.
-- St. Paul cavorted to Christianity. He preached holy acrimony, which is another name for marriage.
-- A Christian should have only one spouse. This is called monotony.
love ya
nic'
the bbc are inviting comment from former cult members.. why not read the article, follow the link and post your story!.
nic'.
leaving a cult.
The BBC are inviting comment from former cult members.
Why not read the article, follow the link and post your story!
Nic'
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Leaving A Cult
A few years ago, Horace and his wife, Clare, became involved in a church with such rigid views that it could be classed as a cult. Horace used to play bass with the groups, The Specials and later with General Public, and now teaches at a special needs school. Clare and Horace talked to John Peel about how they go involved with, and eventually left the cult in which had been so central to their lives...
Clare: "We were going to a fairly ordinary local church. Some women there who were involved in another very much pro-women movement. They were very dynamic powerful women. They decided to start their own church, and Horace and I gradually left our own church and went over to this one.
John: What was it that this church offered that the previous one did not?
Clare: In the begining they seemed to be more sincere, dynamic and active in the community. What they do on the outside can look good.
John: Did they seem brainwashed or different from yourselves?
Clare: We didn’t feel that they were brainwashed initially.
Horace: But they were very dynamic and did seem to have a very up-to-date 'Now!' take on the Bible. This made sense for what we wanted at the time. After a while, it seemed to be the Bible mixed with American business seminar techniques, using a lot of American names - and all of a sudden it was "God wants you rich. God wants you to have prosperity" and everybody started praying for white BMWs!
Clare: They actually said the reason why people fought over Jesus’clothes when he was on the cross was because his clothes were designer clothes of the time.
John: You’re kidding!
Horace: There was some mention in the Bible of it being a ‘seamless garment’ .. it was like the equivalent of Armani or something …
John: Why did you need to get caught up in this?
Horace: Claire and I had gone through all that pop madness that goes on and felt there must be more to life than this… us Christanity seemed a fair answer..
Claire: The mistake people make is thinking that cults only attract vulnerable people. When you’re in these organisations, there’s doctors, teachers, lawyers, musicians artist - all kinds of people. At some level they must feel they have a need for it, but at another level it legitimises that organisation.
John: Did they try to change you at all?
Clare: It’s a gradual drip drip process. You’re accepted as you are when you first go, but then there are things you have to change about your appearance, the way you talk and act.."
John: What did they want to change about your appearance?
Clare: "Well I had a Number 4 haircut - you know - shaved all over and I was told I had a demonic spirit of lesbianism because of my haircut… The organisation wanted us to change my friends - they called them ‘cronies’. I didn’t lose contact with my friends, which was a life-saver for me, but I did change my attitude towards them. I felt that there was an ‘us’ and ‘them’ situation. Everybody outside the organisation isn’t ‘saved’, isn’t ‘enlightened’. This is encouraged.
John: What about your family?
Clare: My father disapproved of the organisation right from the beginning. My sister and brother-in-law, and my mother eventually joined a different group up in Scotland. They’re not now involved with them.
Horace: There was a lot about healing - and this was the reason why we eventually got out…
Clare: A friend had a son who was 3 years old. He had cancer. I took her to a meeting with a visiting American evangelist - he laid hands on her son and said the boy was well. Fact. The boy had been sent home to die from the hospital - there was nothing more they could do for him. My friend had pinned her last and highest hopes on this and it was just so painful when her son died about a week later. At the time I believed that it might have helped …
Horace: Absolute travesties were done in the name of God, Jesus, the Bible..
John: Were you threatened when you left?
Clare: No - the pastor came round and had a talk and was very disgruntled. If we see any of those people now they look at us with a bemused horror. We’re against their organisation now so we’re a ‘tool of the devil’ I have been told I have been possessed by the devil in so many ways…
John: Do you understand why you got involved in the first place?
Horace: Yes - we’re a lot more balanced about our view on life now. We had wanted a specific answer about what we need from life. But there isn’t one definite thing, there's a whole series of choices, a whole load of questions ..
Clare: People do generally mature and come out these cults, usually because they are disillusioned in some way. But if people round them have been hostile and unsupportive, then it can be very difficult to find anyone to talk to. It’s always important to leave a door open…"
Have you, a friend, or a member of your family become involved with an organisation which you wished to leave, but found hard to do so?
How did this affect your close relationships?
Were friends and family supportive?
Join In
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Nic': here's where to do it http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/hometruths/leavingacult.shtml
