No, as I said narrow your focus to ONE issue. State your case simply and clearly. Not fifty pages. You're not writing a book. It's hard to write well, especially what is essentially expository writing. Pick one issue, develop it. Post it here for comments. What you have does not work.
Posts by vienne
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32Counter-Watchtower / Answers-in-Watchtower First Draft Issue 1
by Counter-Watchtower inplease proof read the draft and comment any edits, corrects or changes of any kind needed.
also i need help with the cover page, what the title should be and plain text or whatnot, whatever would be more appealing to a jw to get them to open and read.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0b2s6sigyikwhmglhqk5fcmxwzwc/view?usp=sharing.
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vienne
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Counter-Watchtower / Answers-in-Watchtower First Draft Issue 1
by Counter-Watchtower inplease proof read the draft and comment any edits, corrects or changes of any kind needed.
also i need help with the cover page, what the title should be and plain text or whatnot, whatever would be more appealing to a jw to get them to open and read.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0b2s6sigyikwhmglhqk5fcmxwzwc/view?usp=sharing.
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vienne
1. Narrow your focus to one issue.
2. Clearly and honestly state the Watchtower position. [You fail in this as it is.]
3. Explain why we should reject the Watchtower position. This is more than saying you don't believe it.
4. Present clearly stated scriptural proof. Analyze the verses in question. Often a focus on the verb forms is helpful.
5. Not that you have done it here, but as a precaution, never present yourself as a Greek or Hebrew language expert.
6. If you quote an authority to support your opinion, ensure you understand their bias. If you do not, it will come back and bite your butt.
7. Write clear, simple sentences. Never write beyond your vocabulary. Everything, even the most complex issues, can be stated simply.
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Counter-Watchtower / Answers-in-Watchtower First Draft Issue 1
by Counter-Watchtower inplease proof read the draft and comment any edits, corrects or changes of any kind needed.
also i need help with the cover page, what the title should be and plain text or whatnot, whatever would be more appealing to a jw to get them to open and read.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0b2s6sigyikwhmglhqk5fcmxwzwc/view?usp=sharing.
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vienne
You have no real refutation of Watchtower teaching. You quote scriptures without meaningful comments or application. What are you refuting? Exactly. I reject Witness teaching, and you would not have convinced me.
If you were one of my students, you'd get an F and I'd give you one chance to remedy the problems. Clearly state the doctrine you're refuting. Tell us how the verse you cite in refutation accomplishes your purpose. Do you know what the Watchtower says about those verses? Address their comments in advance.
Some of the verses you cite do not address your issues. New Witnesses may be scripturally illiterate, but older ones often know the Bible remarkably well. If you wish to convince them of anything, you must make your application of the verses clear. Even then, you chose verses that do not make your point. Example is how God views those 'outside the organization.' Witnesses use the verses you chose as a reason for their ministry. To them God is earnestly seeking those in need of his word. So your use of those verses returns a Witness to his default thought. "We preach because God loves the world of mankind; to bring salvation to them."
You cite a Watchtower claiming that it shows the Watchtower to teach that Russell and Rutherford are anointed prophets. The quotation does no such thing. This calls into question either your honesty or reading comprehension. Witnesses may be mistaken in some beliefs, but most of them are not stupid. They will notice your inability to apply a verse and your false claim. Simply quoting a scripture and in effect saying, 'there! see!' is not convincing. It is what a totally inexperienced person does. And it is never effective. Explain why you find the verse to support your opinion.
Also ... your work is boring as heck. It does not engage the mind. It's old ground, covered before to little effect. You should also note that Theology is not simply quoting scripture. Theology is the in-depth analysis of Bible doctrine and content. [I suggest you read Strong's Systematic Theology.]
Some Witnesses consult Bible translations other than their NWT, but most of them rely on the Watchtower's translation. Use it. It won't bite. And it puts you on their ground. If you want to use the American Standard Version, use the original. The Watchtower published it for years under license from Thomas Nelson. But Witnesses see the NASB as a step backward in translation, and they're not alone in seeing it that way.
Before you go forward [And I'm not trying to make you give up, only to do better], read a good guide to thesis writing. To refute Witnesses you must develop some intellectual tools. You must learn to write to a standard higher than the average Watchtower article. You aren't even close.
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Counter-Watchtower / Answers-in-Watchtower First Draft Issue 1
by Counter-Watchtower inplease proof read the draft and comment any edits, corrects or changes of any kind needed.
also i need help with the cover page, what the title should be and plain text or whatnot, whatever would be more appealing to a jw to get them to open and read.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0b2s6sigyikwhmglhqk5fcmxwzwc/view?usp=sharing.
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vienne
That particular one is new to me. The one we saw was a doctored up picture of the high priest as found in Tabernacle Shadows.
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Counter-Watchtower / Answers-in-Watchtower First Draft Issue 1
by Counter-Watchtower inplease proof read the draft and comment any edits, corrects or changes of any kind needed.
also i need help with the cover page, what the title should be and plain text or whatnot, whatever would be more appealing to a jw to get them to open and read.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0b2s6sigyikwhmglhqk5fcmxwzwc/view?usp=sharing.
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vienne
If you think Witness theology is flawed, the logical response is to refute it biblically. Pointing to long-refuted and discredited 'facts' does not do it. If you think they're wrong on the nature of Christ. Prove it. If you think their doctrine on the death state is wrong, prove it. If you think anything in their belief system is wrong, refute it.
Those who focus on faked up history usually cannot refute Witness theology. They're usually scripturally illiterate.
There's a youtube video or two that claim to have questions Witnesses cannot answer. I'm not and never have been a Witness and could present answers to those simpleton questions. If you want to get a Witness to think, you must have a sound, scriptural argument. The Bible matters to Witnesses. Does it matter to you?
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Counter-Watchtower / Answers-in-Watchtower First Draft Issue 1
by Counter-Watchtower inplease proof read the draft and comment any edits, corrects or changes of any kind needed.
also i need help with the cover page, what the title should be and plain text or whatnot, whatever would be more appealing to a jw to get them to open and read.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0b2s6sigyikwhmglhqk5fcmxwzwc/view?usp=sharing.
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vienne
Russell was not a Mason and did not use the pyramid as a Masonic symbol. The cross and crown is and was a common emblem among Christian churches. This has been hashed out here repeatedly. Claiming it is so does not change it and will not influence most Witnesses:
From Separate Identity:
Appendix One: Russell and the Masons
History is full of plots and conspiracies. Recounting them makes for interesting history. We memorialize some of them. Our English cousins annually burn Guy Fawkes in effigy and have a gay old time doing so. Our American relations celebrate the Minute Men (conspirators all), erecting statues, putting idealized, heroic images of one of their number on postage stamps, using it in patriotic propaganda, or as a trademark for an insurance company. A fiction genre derives from our ancestors’ plots and conspiracies, and we may be entertained by Dumas or bored to distraction by a modern-day incarnation of Luise Mühlbach. The suggestion that Charles Taze Russell was a Mason, part of a great, generations-long conspiracy doesn’t even meet the standard of historical fiction.
If there were any merit to this claim, our book would be significantly more interesting than it is. The ‘evidence’ presented by those who promote this fails to meet any rational standard. One of the boldest of those promoting this fantasy suggests it must be so because he believes it to be so. Various writers present an extensive “Russell Bloodline” that is supposed to prove that C. T. Russell was a mason, though as one admits: “This author has not established any link between the various famous Russells. Although I have been doing genealogy work, I have not had the chance to do the long term geneology [sic] work required to clarify the issue, if the reader is dissatisfied with the extent of this information, he is encouraged that rather than criticize to research it himself.”
Masons were in the 19th Century extremely proud of their brotherhood. Invariably if someone was noticed in a regional history, a biographical record, or in an obituary, their Masonic membership was noted. Lodges kept and published meticulous membership lists. As you read this book you will find a number of instances where we note someone’s lodge membership. The Pittsburgh lodges were no different. Their membership rolls are easy to find. We have scoured those lists for any mention of the Russells. Neither Joseph nor Charles is found on any lodge membership roll in Allegheny City or Pittsburgh. Those postulating some role for Russell in a vast Masonic conspiracy suggest that there is a ‘hidden’ lodge, more secretive, malevolent, bent on dominating American society. They can’t prove its existence, of course. After all, it’s secret.
The evidence presented by conspiracy hypothecators (Their speculations do not meet the definition of a “theory.”) consists of a series of non-sequiturs, pseudo-syllogisms, untenable, and insupportable conclusions. A feeling of powerlessness and manipulation underlies their claims. Those who advocate this theory seek to transfer blame for accepting a belief system they now reject to an ill defined conspiracy. They are unwilling to see, as traditional Christianity holds, that Satan is the prince of the power of the air, manipulating human society to his own ends; so they replace a demonic conspiracy with an improbable human one. Some who read this book will come to it seeking evidence for Russell’s Masonic connections. They will not find here what they seek.
Though it offends my historian’s sensibilities to do so, let’s examine the ‘evidence.’ As usually presented it falls into three categories: symbolisms used during the Russell era; Russell’s associations; and textual evidence.
Symbolisms
Decorative motifs found on Watch Tower publications are interpreted as Masonic. From an early date a cross and crown design appeared on Zion’s Watch Tower’s front cover. Because it was also used on Masonic paraphernalia, notably on the ceremonial swords, the presumption is that Russell borrowed from Masonic forms, covertly announcing to all “in the know” his Masonic connections. The logic flaws behind this reasoning are astounding.
Cross and Crown
Masonic use of the cross and crown symbolism derives from Christian usage. The symbolism became popular in the 17th Century at least in Christian phraseology. In 1621, Francis Quarles wrote the poem Hadassa: The History of Queene Ester. It contains this couplet:
The way to bliss lies not on beds of down,
And he that has no cross deserves no crown.
There is a high probability that William Penn took the title of his famous essay No Cross, No Crown from Quarles’ poem. From Penn and others who wrote similarly, the cross and crown coupling became popular. For instance, Matthew Henry observed in his Exposition of the Old and New Testaments (published in several volumes between 1708 and 1710): “We only bear the cross for a while, but we shall wear the crown to eternity.”[1]
By mid-19th Century the phrase, “we must all bear the cross before we can wear the crown” had become common, finding its way into poems, homelies, sermons and common speech. Russell would have heard it repeated ad nausium. The cross and crown was found as an embroidery pattern; it found a place on Sunday school pins, on convention ribbons, and on jewelry, and this long before it appeared on the Watch Tower’s front cover or on a Masonic sword. The cross and crown symbol found on The Watch Tower in the early 1890s is a combination of type matrixes commonly found in a printers type drawer. The revised version from the later 1890s is a single type face, also common in usage.
Poem by Harriet Miston Tilly Published in 1850.
Pyramid
A pyramid shaped monument was installed in the Bible Student cemetery in Pittsburgh. The cemetery is occasionally described as Masonic. It’s not. There is a Masonic temple nearby built years later. There is no connection. The pyramid was intended as a general monument with the names of those buried in the Watch Tower plots engraved onto open books. Rather than being a Masonic symbol, the open book motif derives from the book of Revelation. Those who want to cast Russell as part of some great Masonic conspiracy claim the pyramid embodies the “all seeing eye.” It does not. The pyramid symbol refers to Russell’s belief, shared by many others who did not otherwise hold his views, that the Great Pyramid at Gizah was a divinely inspired testimony in stone to Bible truth. We trace the development of this idea in Chapter Three. The use of the pyramid as a monument was suggested not by the back of the US dollar which had an entirely different design in 1920, but by the grave marker for Charles Piazzi Smyth, a prominent pyramidologist and Astronomer Royal of Scotland.
The monument was installed in 1919, some years after Russell’s death. One source suggests Russell designed it, a Bible Student convention report saying: “The Pyramid, as you will note, has an open book carved on each side, intended by Brother Russell for the names of Bethel workers as they ceased their work and were laid at rest, awaiting the great Resurrection of the first-fruits of the Lord.”[2] A Bible Student web page takes pains to blame the pyramid monument on Rutherford rather than Russell. Neither of these statements is correct. The monument was designed not as a memorial to Russell but “as a memorial to the society.” It was “designed by Brother Bohnet, and accepted by Brother Russell as the most fitting emblem for an enduring monument on the Society’s burial space.” According to Bohnet, work started in 1914. The pyramid’s purpose was not Masonic.[3]
The Bliss Theater
In 1965 Jehovah’s Witnesses purchased the Bliss Theater in the Sunnyside section of Queens, turning it into an Assembly Hall. The theater, built in 1931, was decorated in an Egyptian motif. Shortly after purchase, the Watchtower Society issued a post card showing the theater before extensive renovations began. Because the original Egyptian symbols appear in the photo, the post card is used to prove enduring Masonic connections. In fact the Watchtower Society renovated the theater, replacing the neo-Egyptian décor with Bible-based paintings. The symbolism on the front of the theater was removed as well. A mindless determination to find a conspiracy where none exists perpetuates a myth. This type of attack characterizes a vocal but under-educated and rather stupid minority of former adherents. Current photos of the Queens Assembly Hall are available on the Internet. They are easy to find. Those with a determination to remain stupid simply ignore them or do not look for them.
Other symbolisms are also put forward as Masonic. The vignette in the corner of Zion’s Watch Tower showing arms and armor and a shepherd’s crook is one of these. The derivation is from Paul’s letter to the Ephesians. The winged disk motif on later editions of Studies in the Scriptures traces both to Russell’s preoccupation with the Great Pyramid as a supplementary support to Bible revelation and to commonly appearing Egyptian motifs. All things Egyptian were part of a fad in the United States, fueled by archaeological discoveries.
Other Issues
Because there was a Mizpah Lodge in Allegheny, some point to its existence as prove that Russell was a Mason. Mizpah is a transliteration of the Hebrew word for watchtower. This lodge did not exist until after Russell left Allegheny for Brooklyn. There is no record of any Russell membership.
Some years ago there were rumors of a photo allegedly showing Russell in Masonic robes. Those who claim to have seen it refuse to produce it, claiming to have been sworn to secrecy. The so-called photo appears to be an illustration from Tabernacle Shadows of the Jewish high priest in his robes. This is not a photograph or drawing of Russell. Additionally, some claim that Russell’s name is recorded in “the mother lodge” in Ireland. This record does not exist. Those making the claim should produce it if they have it. When asked to produce it or even identify the “mother lodge” more specifically, they can do neither because it is a fabrication.
Russell’s opinion of secret societies is well known, but always ignored by conspiracy theorists. In 1895 Russell wrote:
We note also that the order of Free Masons, if judged by its past history, has some secret object or scheme, more than fraternity and financial aid in time of sickness and death. And, so far as we can judge, there is a certain amount of worship or mummery connected with the rites of this order and some others which the members do not comprehend, but which, in many cases, serves to satisfy the cravings of the natural mind for worship, and thus hinders it from seeking the worship of god in spirit and truth – through Christ, the only appointed Mediator and Grand Master. In proportion as such societies consume valuable time in foolish, senseless rites and ceremonies, and in substitution the worship of their officers, and the use of words and symbols that have no meaning to them, for the Worship of God, in the appointed way – through Christ, and according to knowledge and the spirit of a sound mind 0 in that proportion these societies are grievous evils, regardless of the financial gains or losses connected with membership in them.[4]
Russell enlarged on these comments in The New Creation, writing this:” The Free Masons, Odd Fellow, Knights of Pythias, etc. perform certain rites and ceremonies of a religious kind … We admonish the New creation to have nothing whatever to do with any of these semi-religious societies, clubs, order, churches; but to “Come out from amongst them, and be ye separate and touch not the unclean thing.” (2 Cor. 6:17)” Russell paces these societies and churches on “one level” and counted them as part of Babylon the Great, dangerous, faith-killing religion.[5]
Russell’s Associates and Textual Evidence
Without doubt Russell associated with some who were Masons. His uncle was a Mason. Some of his earliest associates were, and some of his known business associates were Masons. Does this imply that Russell was one? The authors of this book teach. We associate on a regular basis with children. But, hopefully, we have passed beyond childhood. Associations do not indicate membership in a group. Find a membership list with Russell’s name on it. That would be good, solid evidence. Present that to us, and we’ll revise this book; otherwise, stop being stupid.
Russell made a few comments on Masons. These are taken out of context; occasionally the quotation is altered. Russell’s comments reflect an outsider’s view of the Masonic brotherhood. The quotation seen in context has Russell say that he was never a Mason. Absent real evidence that he was a Mason, one must reject this claim. Even if we could readily find his name on a lodge membership list, we would be left with proving a grand Masonic conspiracy. That is the stuff of second-rate adventure movies, not history. I am bringing this distasteful task to an end. Certainly some who read this book will not release their grasp on a conspiracy theory that gives them some sense of self-justification or of possessing esoteric knowledge, but the membership lists of the Pittsburgh and Allegheny Lodges are easy to find. Show us his name on one of those lists.
[1] See his commentary on James in any complete edition. He made the comment when considering James chapter one.
[2] Souvenir Notes from the Reunion Convention of Christian Bible Students: Pittsburgh, Pa., November 1-2-3, 1929.
[3] Souvenir Notes from the Bible Student’s Convention: Pittsburgh, Pa., January 2-5, 1919, page 7.
[4] C. T. Russell: Secret and Beneficent Societies, Zion’s Watch Tower, June 1895, page 143.
[5] Watch Tower Society, 1904, pages 580-581.
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Does JW Org Have Goons Like Scientology?
by Counter-Watchtower ini guess this would be a good question to ask.
does jw org have goons they send after ppl to threaten them?
or to inflict violence on?
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vienne
They have some fairly stupid elders sometimes. But nothing like Scientology.
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JW-Wayback.org - Massive Watchtower Archives Free To Download
by pale.emperor inhttp://jw-wayback.org/en/static1/library.
the owner has done an excellent job of scanning, downloading and making available pretty much everything watchtower ever did.. one to bookmark i think!.
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vienne
It's working again. Who knows why it stopped or why it started again. Thanks for offering to help, cobweb.
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JW-Wayback.org - Massive Watchtower Archives Free To Download
by pale.emperor inhttp://jw-wayback.org/en/static1/library.
the owner has done an excellent job of scanning, downloading and making available pretty much everything watchtower ever did.. one to bookmark i think!.
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vienne
files won't open for me. what am I doing wrong?
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Help ... maybe
by vienne indr. schulz and i are pushing to finished volume two of separate identity by mid-2018.
to make this book the best it can be we need material that we haven't been able to find.
1. a tract on spiritism by n. barbour published about 1881 or so.
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vienne
there are many here, sparrow, who are interested in Watch Tower history and who are helpful. I accept that you feel damaged by the WT. However, you make snap judgments that, in my case, are wrong.