Posts by vienne

43

Did You Ever Luke ANY Songs From The “Songbook “?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i went on line looking for old jw songs and some of them were pretty good and some were just awful!.

did you ever like any of those songs?

.

vienne

Hymns of Millennial Dawn to Current songbook .... LUKE I AM your Father.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

40

Secret Societies involved at the very top of the Org

by Formerbrother in

are all the gb members past and present, part of skulls and bones and other masonic secret societies?

we know the first few top brass were, like br rutherford and br russel.. they all have several expensive watches.

like literally more than one for everyday of the week, rolex and omega, where did they come from?

vienne

If something seems improbable, it probably is not true.

Masonic rings have a devise on them. All of them do. Where is the masonic device on these rings? And why would any governing body member advertise their membership in an organization forbidden to the rank and file?

The so-called Rolex is misidentified. Wanting it to be a rolex does not make it one. Also, even if it were, it was probably a gift. I own a Rolex. With five daughters I could never afford one. It was a gift from my grandmother who most certainly could afford one.

And just to keep things accurate, it is not "mr. vienne." It is Ms de Vienne or Dr. de Vienne. At the risk of being overly crude, my only penis is attached to my husband.

24

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses always answer questions through the bible?

by MarieChii in

hi.. recently i've been researching jehovah's witnesses and their beliefs and found out that they don't believe in blood transfusions.

so, i've asked one of my friends who is a jw as to what is the reason for this, and so far, they had always directed me to a bible verse that is in their bible.. clearly, i wasn't getting anywhere and so far, it's pretty much frustrating to even make my friend give me reasonable reason.

when i was getting somewhere, even a smidgen, they would answer with a question.

vienne

I'm not a Witnesses. I'm a historian. Personal narratives tell the story as the author would have it, not always as it is. Approach them all with caution, both the favorable and the unfavorable.

The Witness religion is bibliocentric. They will answer from the Bible because their beliefs are derived from it. This is not to say that everything they see as Biblically correct is so. But they think it is, and when they explain a belief they will do so from the Bible. Take the Bible from the equation and the religion has no reason for being.

A more neutral approach - and more scholarly approach - to Witness belief and practice are Zoe Knox's Jehovah's Witnesses and the Secular World and George Chryssides' Jehovah's Witnesses: Continuity and Change. Neither book is totally free from error, but they are largely so, and both are written by scholars with an academic rather than polemic interest. Both books are very, very expensive. I recommend Interlibrary Loan.

If you want something that details the very earliest years of the Watch Tower, then I recommend [shameless plug] Schulz and de Vienne: Separate Identity, vol 1. This is not nearly as expensive.

Approaching the study of any religion though the work of disaffected members or anti cult activists will mislead you.

14

non jehovah witness dinner

by whatisthis12 in

so almost two weeks ago, my boyfriend(who was disfellowshiped) went to the memorial.

he hasn’t spoken to his parents, friends, or siblings for over a year because of it.

the only person he keeps in contact with is his grandma, which is who he went along with.

vienne

For goodness' sake. Run. Dump him. The sex can't be that good. Wake up. ... and learn to use the possessive. It's not "Jehovah Witness" it's "Jehovah's Witnesses."

8

I want to talk with other people

by Sammy12 in

i want to talk with people who are witnesses.

i’m 17f and wanting some company.

get in contact with me please.

vienne

As a mother of five girls, I am totally uncomfortable with you being here. There are excellent people here and some who make me shudder. None of them share your faith and some of them will not have your best interest at heart. Always use caution when using the Internet.

Socialize with live people. Be outgoing but be cautious, even in real life. Not every friend needs to be your age. When I was your age my most important friends and mentors were older, mature people. But I had my share of friends from my age cohort, some of whom are still my fast friends.

40

Secret Societies involved at the very top of the Org

by Formerbrother in

are all the gb members past and present, part of skulls and bones and other masonic secret societies?

we know the first few top brass were, like br rutherford and br russel.. they all have several expensive watches.

like literally more than one for everyday of the week, rolex and omega, where did they come from?

vienne

No surprise that he wasn't a Mason. There was considerable agitation among Christians against Masons and other 'secret' societies. Russell was exposed to that. He found his niche among YMCA evangelists, circulating tracts and night time street preaching in 'doggeries' [Very low class bars and taverns] and pool halls.

If you're interested, we document this in Separate Identity, volume 1, available via lulu.com or Amazon.

He also pursued internally sponsored church functions. He tells of his disappointment over Church Fairs and his distaste at selling tickets for them and the degradation [as he saw it] of female church members. Russell came from the conservative side of an ages long church divide. Philip Schaff, a 19th Century historian and religion writer described it as "a conflict between separation and catholicism: Between the idea of the church as an exclusive community of regenerate saints and the idea of the church as the general christendom of State and people."

Modern readers are not used to his use of an un-capitalized 'catholicism.' He meant not the Catholic church but an all inclusive universal church. Russell believed that the church was the habitation of saints, not open to unregenerate sinners. We consider this in volume 2 of Separate Identity, which is, thankfully, nearing completion. Joining the Masons or any other secretive group would have run against his ideas of Christian behavior and association. He felt that the work of Christ came before anything else, even if otherwise 'innocent.' So frivolous associations and events took one away from Christ. This was not a new development in his theology but came from his Calvinist background.

On these grounds alone, we would conclude that Russell would not have been drawn to the Masons.

40

Secret Societies involved at the very top of the Org

by Formerbrother in

are all the gb members past and present, part of skulls and bones and other masonic secret societies?

we know the first few top brass were, like br rutherford and br russel.. they all have several expensive watches.

like literally more than one for everyday of the week, rolex and omega, where did they come from?

vienne

Data, how about some proof, some evidence beyond speculation? Some original source document? Something that will convince a historian such as myself? Something that isn't based on a logic flaw?

40

Secret Societies involved at the very top of the Org

by Formerbrother in

are all the gb members past and present, part of skulls and bones and other masonic secret societies?

we know the first few top brass were, like br rutherford and br russel.. they all have several expensive watches.

like literally more than one for everyday of the week, rolex and omega, where did they come from?

vienne

he did not use masonic symbols. that's a falsehood perpetrated by someone who would rather believe a conspiracy theory than use logic or seek real evidence. There is no "Russell bloodline." The Society sold the cemetery long before the Masons built their center.

The Society sold the land (apart from couple of reserved plots) to the North Side Catholic Cemetery in November 1917. The Catholic Cemetery Association finally sold it on to Masonic Fund Society of Pittsburgh in October 1994. There is no Masonic connection.

The lack of logic and clear thinking on the part of the Russell was a Mason theorists [it doesn't reach the level of a theory, really] explains why they became Witnesses in the first place and why they left. They're mental 'drifters' willing to accept any belief that makes them comfortable.

No member of the Governing Body belongs to skull and bones. To be a member you must be an undergraduate at Yale. None of the Governing Body attended Yale. Masonic rings have a symbol on them. None of the rings shown on this board do, nor do they have any evidence of a symbol being removed.

To step back one step, where is your proof that the Masons seek world domination? Proof that they have secret control of society. And if you prove that, why would they want to use the Witnesses, a largely despised sect?

40

Secret Societies involved at the very top of the Org

by Formerbrother in

are all the gb members past and present, part of skulls and bones and other masonic secret societies?

we know the first few top brass were, like br rutherford and br russel.. they all have several expensive watches.

like literally more than one for everyday of the week, rolex and omega, where did they come from?

vienne

That Russell was a Mason had been disproved many times and long ago. Rutherford was not a Mason either. The OP premise is false, based on imagination and not facts. But some people will be silly no matter what others say or do.

23

Sign JW Data Protection Form Or Else!

by AverageJoe1 in

in spain (and the rest of europe), the "improved" data protection laws come into force on 25th may 2018. this is a good thing and sadly america is still lagging behind; not surprising with their current president!.

watchtower legal department are hot on the case and have instructed elders to hand out the new "release" forms out to all the publishers in their groups, whilst making it clear to them that they won't have any privileges if they refuse to do so!.

note these points in the instructions:.

vienne

I would never sign the consent form.