Posts by vienne

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

vienne

Last,

Then you didn't look at all. Prove your point. Our blog, active since 2007, is full of footnoted articles, photos of original documents and similar things. Your comment is BS.

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

vienne

Our blog is here https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

I do not know about Rutherford. I think Russell was sincere, but I don't think he got it right. Obviously his prophetic scheme was skewed. He had a strange view of women. He wasn't the moral degenerate people paint him as, but he believed a wife was subsumed by the husband's headship. This was not uncommon in that era. But it is hard to read his views and not shake the head.

The Watchtower has nothing to do with our books, though they have at least one copy of each. We've asked them questions in the past. If we ask to see a document they most often decline. They sent about 8 photocopies four of which were things we had. I am not a Witness. The closest we got to any sort of approval from them was a vague comment not directed to us that an intensive study of an era by a historian changes the narrative. My impression is that while some at the WT find it interesting, most do not like it at all.

Individual Witnesses have contributed a huge amount of material. Some are deeply interested. An example is an aged Dutch Witnesses who spent hours chasing down newspaper articles contemporary to the events. I loved this old man, who has sadly died since.We use much of what he found. Those on 'the other side' have been equally helpful, reading our blog and sometimes commenting or emailing me directly. And there are cognate religions that join with the Watchtower's past back in the 1870s-1880s. Their historians have provided resources and some guidance where we touch on Russell's interactions. The principal surviving cognate religions are the Abrahamic Faith congregations, especially Church of God General Conference (Atlanta). Their historian has helped us gain access to papers and photos. We owe access to all the surviving copies of The Restitution to her.

Some who read my posts think I'm a man. I'm not. I'm mom to five lovely daughters and a retired [health] former professor and teacher.

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

vienne

Dear Eye,

Much of what is written about both men is not exactly true, sometimes blatantly false. But I'd never claim that their belief systems were Biblical or that their personal lives were without fault. Because there is so much written by both sides that is wrong, or incomplete, or misleading, we're taking extreme care to be accurate; to tell the story as bluntly and plainly as we can. We base our work on original sources, some of which have been buried for 100 years or more.

We've found and continue to find material hidden in archives leading us to places where Proclaimers will not take you. We've also found astounding misrepresentation in books some of which are seen as authoritative. And example is a book written in 1945 by a Presbyterian minister who wrote as a sociologist. He manufactured quotations. Following his work to the sources he cites shows him to be pretty much a bloody liar.

Then there is plain ignorance. Watchtower books mention people favorably who never were adherents or who left for other belief systems and they do not tell you that. I think they do not know it. Watchtower 'histories' are unfootnoted except for Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, I have an instant distrust of something that presents itself as a history that fails to footnote. In fairness, I should observe that there are respected authors who've done the same.

We footnote everything because we want our readers to be able to follow our train. We think those who read our books have working minds. I am never disturbed by someone making a decision off available information.. We want the narrative to be refreshed and accurate. As I said earlier, most of what is out there on the Internet and in already published books is false or misleading. There are exceptions. Zoe Knoxx's new book is worth a read. It is very expensive, but you should be able to read it via interlibrary loan. The trend among historians now is to question everything. And to dig deeper. No history is without a least minor faults, but Besier and Stokosa's Jehovah's Witnesses in Europe Past and Present, a multi volume work with essays be 'experts' in their field is as close as one comes. If we make a decision based on a group's history, we should verify what we read.

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

vienne

eye,

That's not history. That's propaganda. We don't write propaganda for either side. We write verifiable history, and footnote our stuff so others can see it and verify it.

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

vienne

Dear Betterdays,

I've read that, though not recently. It's interesting but not always accurate. Should note here, I think, that the claim that there was a secret gold mine made by some is false. The mine was not a gold mine. It was not secret, and it's on the Federal register of historic places. It was a soda ash mine that did not prosper.

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

vienne

Dear TD,

This in answer to your question is an extract of a different chapter that will appear in volume 2 of Separate Identity:

Contributions were not as forthcoming as he wished. The January 1885 Zion’s Watch Tower reported on the state of the tract fund for the two previous years, starting with the deficit of $2571.34 that existed at the start of 1883. Expenditures for the period from January 1, 1882 – December 31, 1884, totaled $2,366.10. The fund remained in deficit nearly twenty-five hundred dollars. The loss of ‘two or more’ significant contributors unquestionably affected the work, as did an economic downturn that started in 1884 and continued into the next year. Russell commented on it and its effects:

The opening year finds the whole world in a state of financial depression which will doubtless be worse before improvement comes. Since we are advised in Scripture that the Day of the Lord’s presence will be a time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation, some may be inclined to anticipate too much, too speedily. This is a tendency which all need to guard against. We should not for a moment lose sight of the apostles striking illustration of the trouble of this day, as recorded in 1 Thes. 5:3. From this illustration we should expect spasmodic trouble and distress of nations: and that these will become more frequent and more serious until they reach the climax stated by the prophet, and result in the death of present systems and the delivery of the children of this world into the New and better, the ‘golden’ Millennial age, in which the King of righteousness shall rule and reign Lord of all, blessing all the families of earth.[1]

The financial depression of 1885 was the culmination of several years of compounding problems in the United States, Canada and elsewhere. Edwin Earl Sparks, a contemporary historian, summarized the complex crisis this way:

The crops of 1883 although surpassing the unfortunate yield of 1881 were scarcely up to the average, and the corn crop fell nearly four hundred million bushels behind. Large quantities of stocks and bonds had been watered by extensions and consolidations which could not be expected to yield immediate dividends, and they declined steadily during the year. Northern Pacific threw on the market in October 1883 an issue of twenty million dollars and created a mild panic. More than ten thousand firms became bankrupt during 1882, a larger number than marked any year since 1873. Causes for the depression were found in over-production, financial troubles abroad, over-railroad building, and capital lying idle because rates of interest were unattractive.[2]

This dry summary doesn’t contribute as much to our understanding as does Russell’s caution against seeing in the world’s financial travail a prophetic fulfillment. People were hurting financially. Many Watch Tower readers were not well off, and even those who were had to watch their pennies. The basics, food to eat and coal to heat with, were scarce and expensive. Jobs dissipated. A United States government report said:

Out of the total number of establishments, such as factories, mines, etc., existing in the country, about eight per cent were absolutely idle during the year ending July 1, 1885, and perhaps five per cent more were idle a part of such time; or, for a just estimate, seven and a half per cent of the whole number of such establishments were idle, or equivalent to idle, during the year named. . . . Making allowance for the persons engaged in other occupations, 998,839 constituted ‘the best estimate’ of the possibly unemployed in the United States during the year ending July 1, 1885 (many of the unemployed, those who under prosperous times would be fully employed, and who during the time mentioned were seeking employment), that it has been possible for the Bureau to make. ... A million people out of employment, crippling all dependent upon them, means a loss to the consumptive power of the country of at least $1,000,000 per day, or a crippling of the trade of the country of over $300,000,000 per annum.[3]

If God supported the work, he supported it out of the pockets of believers who were in straightened circumstances. Contributions lagged. With the publication of The Plan of the Ages in 1886, Russell changed his approach to circulating Watch Tower publications. It soon became apparent that The Plan of the Ages would not pay its own way. The volumes of Millennial Dawn were sold at a loss through most of their printing life. This was a result of philosophy and practicality. Russell turned to a colportage to circulate Millennial Dawn and the Tract Society’s books and booklets. The booklets were often given away freely, and the agreement with the colporteurs allowed them as much support from the circulation of books as the Watch Tower Society could manage.

[1] View from the Tower, Zion’s Watch Tower, January 1885, page 1.

[2] E. E. Sparks: The American Nation: A History. National Development, 1877-1885, Harper & Bros. New York, 1907, pages 328-329.

[3] Report on Industrial Depression, United States Bureau of Labor, 1886, as quoted in David A. Wells: Recent Economic Changes and Their Effect on the Production and Distribution of Wealth and the Well Being of Society, D. Appleton & Co., New York, 1899, page 18.

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

vienne

I should add that admission to the Photo Drama was free, at considerable expense to the Watch Tower Society. So, how does it contribute to your belief that Russell made money off of it?

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

vienne

Dear Listener,

You misapprehend the nature of what you read. We do not write either a polemic or defense of the Watch Tower. We write history based on the original documents. What you read is a partial of a much larger work, not even a complete chapter. We deal with Russell’s predictive failure elsewhere. For instance in volume one of Separate Identity we included a chapter entitled Aftermath of Failure. That chapter discusses the 1878 failure. We have another that will appear in volume two [the extract you read is part of vol. 2] that discusses Russellite expectations for 1881.

You ask about the Gospel Age, calling it “up-coming.” Our text makes it clear that in Russell’s dispensationalist view it was ending. He thought it would end at or near 1914. We deal with that in another chapter.

Do we have proof that the tracts were primarily paid for by Russell? Yes, we do, and we include a chapter [vol. 2, nearing completion] entitled Organizing and Financing the Work. Put briefly, in the 1880s Russell’s readers were relatively poor due to a series of post-Civil War recessions and depressions. We have some pages from the Watch Tower ledger, sent to us by someone connected to the Watchtower’s writing department and by the Watchtower itself. Most of these list expenses. One lists the major contributors by name and amount. Russell leads the list by far. We include the full text of that page in a later chapter. Additionally, over his lifetime Russell contributed a quarter million dollars to the WTS. WT ‘shares’ were issued if requested for each ten dollars in contributions. The number of Russell’s shares reveals the amount he contributed. He was majority share-holder until his death, and outstanding shares did not pass his in number until near his death.

Court testimony (Russell v. Russell and Russell v. Brooklyn Eagle] shows that Society publications were sold at a loss or simply given away. The partial chapter you read concentrates on the years 1879-1886. All publications were given away free except for a few remaining copies of Object and Manner which were available in large lots for ten cents. Colporteurs got everything for free, keeping money from subscriptions obtained to defray expenses. In this period there were no “more substantial publications.” Money for Paton’s Day Dawn went to Paton and A. D. Jones, his publisher; not to Russell. Russell paid for copies and gave them away at no cost to those who would circulate them. This was at a financial loss to Russell.

He offered a few Bibles and concordances at a break-even discount. From 1881 when Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society was founded until 1887, the cut off year for Separate Identity, our book, the Society was deeply in debt. A donation of Florida lands by the Russells reduced the debt but did not put the Society in the black.

You write: “It is possible that what was printed ... about the funding at that time was deceptive.” Historians shouldn’t speculate. And that’s what this is. Ethically, we can’t make things up. We must be guided by available documentation – by that I mean original material, not secondary sources – unless there is a compelling reason to reject the original claims. If you can find proof that the WTS financial statements are deceptive, we will happily include it in this chapter. But ‘proof’ isn’t speculation; it is something in a trustworthy contemporary document.

In the period on which we concentrate [to 1887] ZWT operated at a loss. Later when forced to open the books in the two court cases I mentioned earlier, it was demonstrated that even Studies in the Scriptures circulated at a net loss. The books did not pay their way.

By message of “fear,” Russell meant Hell-Fire doctrine. We should clarify that. You wrote: “This doesn’t mean there was no fear being taught through his doctrine.” You mistake current Watchtower practice with Russell era practice. Your statement exemplifies a common logic fault. You presume something was true because you want it to be true. At this point you give us unfounded speculation. Speculation drives research, but alone it is unsound. If you can find in something Russell wrote some form of fear mongering, point me to it. We’ll happily use it in the next volume of Separate Identity.

Simply because the narrowly focused extract from this chapter leads to a conclusion differing from a commonly expressed opposition narrative is no reason to call us biased. We present in footnotes our sources. You have no sources except personal opinion. “Could be” and speculation are not a refutation. Evidence from original sources would be.

http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/b-w-schulz/a-separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887/paperback/product-21546337.html

https://www.amazon.com/Separate-Identity-Organizational-Readers-1870-1887/dp/1304969401

30

Watch Tower History

by vienne in

we've posted updated and new research on our history blog.

http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html.

this is rough draft material for a chapter in vol.

vienne

We've posted updated and new research on our history blog. http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2018/06/temporary-post.html

This is rough draft material for a chapter in vol. 2 of Separate Identity. As rough draft it will probably change before publication. The post is temporary because of copyright issues. [People steal our stuff sometimes. Bad boys all.]

Comments that are on point are welcome.