vienne

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Posts by vienne

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  23

  Stroup's "The Jehovah's Witnesses."

  by em1913 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a book that doesn't get a lot of talk these days is herbert h. stroup's 1945 study "the jehovah's witnesses.

  " which is too bad, because in the field of jw studies it pretty much stands on its own as a serious, scholarly look at the rutherford era of the movement -- one written with no theological or doctrinal axes to grind, but rather with the impartial eye of a professional sociologist.. stroup received no cooperation whatever from brooklyn in writing this book, but he spent a great deal of time among rank-and-file witnesses of the late 1930s and early 1940s, attending their meetings, joining them in field service, and eating at their homes, and what emerges is a picture of an overwhelmingly working-class movement which overlapped in its hopes and ultimate goals the ambitions of other radical social movements of the 1930s.

  the witnesses were not marching in labor parades or participating in sit-down strikes or engaging in other forms of street-level radicalism, but stroup finds that, in their individual views on the social and economic structures of the time, they were largely in harmony with those who were, even in spite of their religion's supposed disavowal of politics, and he sees them as much as a political movement in that sense as a religious one.

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  vienne

  Stroup, a Presbyterian clergyman, wrote a polemic in the guise of a sociological study. He manufactured quotations and made insupportable claims. Stroup was never reliable. Specific claims he made that are false include, but are not limited to, his assertion that Russell claimed to be the last-days 'time clock' appointed as the revealer of last days truth. That's a misrepresentation of a 1910 Overland Monthly article by Russell. He misidentified M. F. Russell. He claimed things about Russell's followers footnoting it to a booklet by Burridge. A check of the original shows the citation is false. He made claims about Watchtower convention attendants and the infamous New Jersey speech by Rutherford that are demonstrably false. I've just scratched the surface with this.

  Dr. Schulz, the series editor for our books, examines Stroup and some others in his introductory essay to Separate Identity volume 2. [Yet to be published but nearly finished.]
  

  Volume 1 is available from lulu.com and Amazon.com.

  Our history blog is here: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
  
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  19

  Blood Transfusions

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  take a wild guess who dreamt up the idea about no blood transfusions for jehovah’s witnesses in the first place?

  charles russell, the founder of the church?

  judge rushford, the alcoholic and second president?

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  vienne

  Our research led us to a now deceased physician who told us that he and his partner had a Witness patient [in 1945] who refused a blood transfusion. The two physicians both Witnesses wrote to the watchtower society asking for their help and stating the patient's religious objections. The Society wrote back stating that the patient was correct in his view of Scripture and the first no-blood article followed in short order. Who made the decision at the Watchtower Society level is unknown, but I suspect it was Franz and not Knorr.
  
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  31

  Is Child Abuse An Issue That You Personally Have Seen In The Organization?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as an elder, i saw one child abuse situation involving a man who wanted to be an elder and had i believe 8 children.

  he was not in our congregation when this all erupted.

  he denied it and moved to another hall and unbelievably, that body of elders wanted to appoint him since they believed his entire family was lying about him.

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  vienne

  Yes, when I was a child and attending with my mother, a friend of mine my age (12). She was sexually abused by her father since she was seven. He was expelled from the fellowship and she and her mother stopped attending. Her life afterward was not what I'd wish on anyone.
  
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  3

  Research Question

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we need this to further our research... .

  the booklet russell, rutherford and "the harp of god" : the heresies of the international bible students association published by the british bible union and written by c. leopold clarke.

  we can't find it in any american library.

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  vienne

  Excellent, thanks. We think this is an abbreviation of the original 30 page booklet, but it will do nicely. Thanks for your help and interest.

  Rachael
  
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  3

  Research Question

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we need this to further our research... .

  the booklet russell, rutherford and "the harp of god" : the heresies of the international bible students association published by the british bible union and written by c. leopold clarke.

  we can't find it in any american library.

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  vienne

  We need this to further our research...

  The booklet Russell, Rutherford and "The harp of God" : the heresies of the International Bible Students Association published by The British Bible Union and written by C. Leopold Clarke.
  
  We can't find it in any American Library. A good scan or photocopy would serve. Anyone?
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  26

  Dirt Fishing - Latest Coin Finds

  by cofty in

  1. social
  2. physical

  it's that time of year again when i can get back on the fields with the metal detector looking for ancient stuff.

  the first field to be harvested was full of peas - ideal as it leaves no stubble and it's a two minute walk from my house.

  it has given up two coins in two visits this week.. the first one is a cut-half silver penny from the reign of henry ii.

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  vienne

  I think all episodes of Time Team are on youtube. Still worth watching.
  
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  20

  Why our IQ levels are higher than our grandparents'

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vpqilhw9ui.

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  vienne

  Simon,

  It's not about what he meant to say. It's about what he said. Language is exacting, or should be. If we must translate what another said, then where is meaning in language?
  
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  20

  Why our IQ levels are higher than our grandparents'

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vpqilhw9ui.

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  vienne

  Slim,

  That may be what he meant. But it is not what he said. Also, there are other, perhaps primary factors that might lead an "intelligent" woman to a decision to have few or no children. One obvious factor is complexity and stress connected to a career choice. Shouldn't we expect posters to say what they mean? We have no warrant to 'translate' their thoughts into something else.
  
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  20

  Why our IQ levels are higher than our grandparents'

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vpqilhw9ui.

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  vienne

  Dear Waton,

  I'm a MENSA member with an IQ variously estimated to be between 170 and 180. I have five daughters - three birth, two adopted. Two of my daughters are also MENSA members. Your premise is flawed.
  
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  14

  A Writer's Graveyard

  by compound complex in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  immersed in dickens and hawthorne, i cannot easily shake off the dusty antiquity of a bygone era.

  however, its scant reality inhabits, not the present, but my sad hearkening back to the shadows of long ago.. hot blood pulses anew within fingers i thought stilled forever in a writer's graveyard of unwritten verse.

  it is a reluctant awakening to a life much sadder than that endured by storybook friends who cannot see me, know me.. permit me, therefore, to reenter that precious twilight betwixt my present and the past, the faraway there of dearly departed poets.

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  vienne

  My dad who wrote science, nuclear physics and separations chemistry and the like, would sit in his chair, his fingers steepled, and think through each sentence. There was seldom any need for revision. He wrote by hand with an old Shaffer fountain pen using a quadrille tablet.

  I sit at my computer and just write it. There's a tonne of revision and rewrite. Which of us that picture would reflect is an open question.