Posts by vienne

78

Kermit Is Delivering Documents!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

kermit is delivering documents with his kermit chopper.. https://docdro.id/a01tdj0.

if you are on the receive list these documents are already in your email.. .

if your not on the list, then reply below that you want kermit to swing by your place, and drop off a copy in your pm box.. .

Now on Amazon

by vienne in

more money for the research fund is generated if you buy mom's book from lulu.com.

http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html.

but if you must buy from amazon, it is now there:.

vienne

More money for the research fund is generated if you buy mom's book from lulu.com

http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html

But if you must buy from Amazon, it is now there:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1678009245/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i0

Too new for many reviews, but all of them have been positive so far.

I miss my mom.

Annie

New Review of Mom's Book

by vienne in

too long to post here, but you can read it here:.

https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2020/04/latest-review-of-separate-identity-vol-2.html.

vienne

Too long to post here, but you can read it here:

https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2020/04/latest-review-of-separate-identity-vol-2.html

8

Currently Reading a very informative book! Jehovahs Witnesses And The

by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

jw
friends

currently reading: jehovahs witnesses and the third reich by james penton.

a wonderful book written by an ex jw, born in 1932. i find this book very informative, interesting specially coz i was not around then.its thorough, lucid factual,every detail referenced and analytical data is provided to authenticate the veracity of assertion.

a pretty good read indeed for pimis n pimos alike!.

vienne

Mom had Penton's books. I've only read two of them, not this one. I liked his book on Witnesses in Canada.

3

Separate Identity vol 2 [Mom's book]

by vienne in

a brief review of mom and b’s newest work found in the french journal: .

mouvements religieux: bulletin publié par l’association d’etude et d’information sur les mouvements religieux, mars – avril 2020, numéro 476-477. .

cet ouvrage monumental est fondamental sur l’histoire des étudiants de la bible, de leurs pr'écurseurs et des débuts de leur histoire.

vienne

http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html

3

Separate Identity vol 2 [Mom's book]

by vienne in

a brief review of mom and b’s newest work found in the french journal: .

mouvements religieux: bulletin publié par l’association d’etude et d’information sur les mouvements religieux, mars – avril 2020, numéro 476-477. .

cet ouvrage monumental est fondamental sur l’histoire des étudiants de la bible, de leurs pr'écurseurs et des débuts de leur histoire.

vienne

A brief review of Mom and B’s newest work found in the French journal:

MOUVEMENTS RELIGIEUX: Bulletin publié par l’Association d’Etude et d’Information sur les Mouvements Religieux, Mars – Avril 2020, Numéro 476-477.

Cet ouvrage monumental est fondamental sur l’histoire des étudiants de la Bible, de leurs pr'écurseurs et des débuts de leur histoire.

"This monumental work is fundamental to the history of Bible Students, their forerunners and the beginnings of their history."

19

Have you Witnessed a Change in People's Life-Style / Behaviour where you Live?

by smiddy3 in

i certainly have , over the normal week i go to one of two clubs where i have two beers over a couple of hours ( i pace myself ) and catch up with a few friends .

one of the clubs every hour goes around to disinfect everywhere people make contact with pokies /machines or whatever we might touch.and they also now have limits as to how many can be in a certain area at any one time.and that applies to both clubs ,except one does not disinfect every hour.. today, their were far fewer people in this particular club that i attended that is usually bustling with patrons on a saturday either drinking gambling and socializing .not today.

and a strict rule of how many could be in a certain area at any one time .. and i agree with all of this , its necessary .and i will be monitoring my own activities as need be.. what have you noticed in your neck of the woods.?

vienne

I'm too young to drive. I turned 15 this month. But my dad and I drive a short stretch of the Interstate to get to our pasture. There is traffic, but not very much. Our often noisy neighborhood [many little kids shouting and playing] is very, very quiet. We stay in as much as possible. I've played more card games with my sister than we usually play in a year. School is online. I miss my friends, though we chat on the phone or text.

Dad works from home. His company's offices are closed. Everything is on the Internet or phone. Dad's trip to Germany to inspect a project has been indefinably cancelled. Cousins living in England and France don't go anywhere. Life is not the same.

4

Mom's book

by vienne in

mom's book, still only available on lulu, got its first review: .

http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html.

"like topsy it just growed.

vienne

Another new review of Separate Identity vol. 2

SATURDAY, MARCH 21, 2020

Some thoughts on the new book

This is a collection of thoughts on Separate Identity volume 2, which has now arrived, as a suitably doorstop-sized package. It is nice to be able to thumb through it and examine it, and not just see pages in isolation on a computer screen.

It has been a long wait, but the book is not disappointing.

What aspect of the contents have I particularly enjoyed? Here are some personal thoughts.

One is the way the book turns around perceived accounts by delving deep into original sources.

As an example, I’ve always been interested in the premise that CTR visited various areas and started 30 congregations in the first year or so of ZWT. On the face of it, that sounds good and the way the Bible Student movement ultimately grew and developed is a matter of record. But the question remained - for these very early days, where did these people come from? They didn’t come out of the ether. They would have to be people with a prior interest; otherwise why would CTR go to their particular towns? Using information from existing magazines, including Storrs’ Bible Examiner and Barbour’s Herald, and other sources pre-dating Zion’s Watch Tower, the authors tracked down what can be known about those people and places. There were numerous independent local fellowships that came and went. These accepted speakers from all over, read papers from all over, and continued to do so for some years. Ultimately people had to choose. Some eventually chose Zion’s Watch Tower. But the background and details, brings this period alive.

Other examples: while opposition and personal attacks were there from the start, it was interesting to note how some clergy from established religions gave up their living and joined the fold. And from where did the majority of CTR’s early Allegheny Bible class come? Not the Adventists as commonly held, but from the Methodists! And every point that turns established concepts on their head is supported by volumous footnotes.

The other aspect I particularly enjoyed is the history of key individuals, which will obviously come even more to the fore in volume three. I am always happy to have detailed life stories, be they of the good, the bad, or the downright ugly. There are so many unknown or almost forgotten characters out there, and the bad ones are often the most interesting – at a distance. The Society’s own histories tend to concentrate on CTR and those who stayed with him. And quite naturally they focus on things from the early days that tie in with their modern mission. But a wider picture can be seen by following up the lives of some of those who started with CTR but then branched off. The theological mindset of those who became Universalists meant that some, like John Paton, tried hard to keep tabs on everyone. So the authors of Separate Identity have extracted details from such sources that, while theologically suspect for some of us today, do fill in the gaps in real history.

Still another aspect I liked is that the narrative is not just America based. Obviously American features prominently – Allegheny, CTR and all that – but a lot of books seem to be so America-centric it’s as if the rest of the world outside their bubble doesn’t exist. So the foreign language field at home and then abroad is an important section of this volume, and fills a gap generally unfilled (until the recent European series started appearing).

And context is also stressed. What was the world like in that part of the world at the time? What were popular beliefs of mainstream religion and why did people believe what they did? If you try and superimpose modern beliefs and attitudes on the 1870s and 1880s you miss the point that while some aspects of developing Watch Tower theology raised conservative eyebrows, much was mainstream belief. Rightly or wrongly, it is much of so-called mainstream belief of the day that has moved on.

It has to be noted that the book is long. One of my correspondents baulked at the thought of 600 pages to add onto the previous 360 plus pages, and more to come. (With final formatting I see the same contents are down slightly to 555 pages). Well, frankly, this book is not for that person. You can’t really judge Separate Identity on the same terms as a commercial production. A commercial production is designed to make money, through appealing to the largest group of people who may buy it. A commercial editor would have reduced the size, and even in academic publishing I believe would have done so. It wouldn’t then be the same book but just another book in the WT history shelves. The length and detail make it unique, even if that may discourage some who could be dismissed as casual readers.

That is NOT a criticism, because the aim was to cover the minutiae, and so the discovered details dictate the length. Probably the only way to achieve this was by self-publishing; and as long as the formatting and layout remain professional looking – which it does - then that is fine.

As described in the introduction, there is some overlap of material in some chapters. The plan of the book means this is inevitable, and with two authors writing over years and not writing in chronological order means you can’t help this happening a bit. But adding an occasional “who we met earlier” “as discussed in chapter x” etc. (I paraphrase here) shows the book has been proof read as a whole and you are “aware” of its total contents. I think that is important to support the “professional” feel, and on my last read through this has succeeded.

So if you haven’t ordered your copy (and extras for a friends) – please, do it now!

4

Mom's book

by vienne in

mom's book, still only available on lulu, got its first review: .

http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html.

"like topsy it just growed.

vienne

The latest review of Separate Identity vol 2.

By Andrew Grzadzielewski

Mar 15, 2020

For anyone interested in the history of the Watchtower Society, this book is a MUST read. And not only this book, Separate Identity Volume 2, but also its predecessor, Separate Identity Volume 1. Both books in the series bring to light information about the early days of the Watchtower Society that even the Watchtower Society's own official histories do not. In particular, those fascinated by the person of Charles Taze Russell, who are interested in a more detailed look into his background, the evolution of his belief system, and his relationship to those who both revered and reviled him, this book will be a treasure. Some considered Russell a saint, others a con man. The true picture of Russell and his associates is much more complicated, and the incredibly comprehensive details Schulz and de Vienne have unearthed make this book one you will likely have trouble putting down. In the book, filled with astonishing detail, the authors have carefully followed Russell's journey through several decades of his life, and thoroughly give multiple insights into the mind of the man, how he came to believe what he believed, who influenced him, what teachings from others he accepted, which ones he rejected, and what motivated many of his readers to modify their own belief systems. An incredible amount of research has gone into telling the stories of dozens of people who became WatchTower adherents, some of whom stayed with Russell, and others who drifted away into other beliefs. In many cases their stories have never been told. Their histories are an essential part of the WatchTower story. In particular, Russell's belief about his own identity as an instrument used by God springs in large part from the enormous amount of letters he received from grateful readers, many who saw him as such an instrument. Using original sources, Schulz and de Vienne have shone a light on a period of WatchTower history many had thought was unrecoverable. They humbly concede that their work is only preliminary; but even if it is, the comprehensive nature of their work will surprise many who either thought they know much about WatchTower history, or had lost hope that it would ever come to light in such astonishing detail. Get this book! And then lend it out to anyone you know who has an interest in 19th and 20th century religion. It is a story that should have been told long ago. It is a monumental achievement.

4

Mom's book

by vienne in

mom's book, still only available on lulu, got its first review: .

http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html.

"like topsy it just growed.

vienne

Vol 2 has about twice as many pages making it more expensive. Zoe Knox's book is nearly $100. That makes Separate Identity 2 more than reasonabe in price.