Posts by vienne

70

Report Card : How’s President Biden Doing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i give him an f for falling down on the job..

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

That right, the right to choose for one's self, already exists for Jehovah's Witnesses. A religious authority cannot remove it. That Witnesses believe they must abide by 1 Corinthians 5:11 means that the majority will choose not to talk to expelled members. The issue here is that being disfellowshipped is an unhappy and hurtful experience. You don't like it. I would not like it. But the decision as to how to deal with a former member, even a family member remains in the individuals hands.

A political party tells its members how to vote and what to think. Many cross party lines, rejecting the dictates of party officials. The choice is in the individual member's hands no matter what party reaction is. In the USA Republicans who do not toe the right wing line are called RINOS - Republicans in Name Only. But the most that can be done is to rant. A religious association can have stricter rules, but your decision to abide by them or not remains yours. If this were not true, those here who were disfellowshipped would never and could never have abandoned Watchtower rules. In life there are no decisions without consequences.

Reasserting that there are many suicides is not proof. I would like to see some solid proof.

"But if someone else tells you who you can speak to, or associate with, or be friends with, that crosses a line to being a hate crime." How is that? If you attend a school or college, on enrolment you agree to abide by certain rules. The administrators have the right to enforce those rules. Your choice is to abide by them or leave. Is that a hate crime? When we're young, our parents may lay down more or less strict rules. Is it a hate crime if they limit our associations?

You're reaching for a definition of disfellowshipping that relieves you of the consequences for your choices. The exercise of the right to choose our associations is not a hate crime, even if the results are unpleasant. It is a basic right in a democratic society.

Another thought: Do you seriously think that individual Witnesses would stop observing I Corinthians 5 no matter what a court says? They are Bible believers, interpreting it literally. They will remain such despite any court decision.

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

vienne

"It has resulted in a large number committing suicide."

I would find it difficult to prove this. Can you?

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

vienne

A truly Democratic society recognizes freedom to choose or reject associates. We may not like the choices others make about us, but it is their right to make them. Hurt feelings are not sufficient reason to overturn this basic right. It is not a human right to negate another's choice to shun us. If we take that away from a religious association we also take it away from a mother who will not see her grossly criminal child.

Does it hurt to be shunned? Absolutely. Is it their right to do so? Just as absolutely. Wanting a court to cancel the right to chose associations is as dictatorial as anything the Watchtower does.

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

vienne

silmb,

When commenting on W. Miller, Heather and Gary Botting: The Orwellian World of Jehovah’s Witnesses, University of Toronto Press, Toronto, 1984, page 36. To my eye this is sloppy research and worse self-editing. That makes the rest of this book open to question.

I miss stated the case. They point to 1944 instead of 1844. And more accurately it should have been 1843.

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

vienne

re the Botting's book. Have you read it? Can you have confidence in a book that points to 1944 instead of 1914? And yes, I've read it. My mom's library has a significant amount of anti-Witness material. I've read it all. Some of it is interesting. Much of it is nonsense.

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

vienne

Being informed is a personal responsibility. Unfortunately, many people "do not read the fine print". But Jehovah's Witnesses are still a voluntary association.

Children raised as Witnesses are free to leave when they become of age. Many do, and many leave before they are of age. That someone was baptized as a youth does not bind them to the association for life. My grandmother converted from Catholicism to Jehovah's Witnesses when my mom was still fairly young. My mom attended meetings with her because in the Austrian/German culture in which she was raised the belief was that you honored your parents that way. Mom was not persuaded or converted, and though she had a Bible based faith it wasn't the Witness faith. When she was of age, she stopped attending. I attend with relatives on occasion. The Witness faith is unconvincing. Being dragged along by friends, relatives or near family does not change the fact that religious association is in Western lands, voluntary association.

Dr. Introvigne's interest in Vampire mythology is academic, not Satanist. Engaging in ad hominem does not refute an argument. You may disagree with his approach, but he isn't a 'cult apologist' but a rational academic who, like most academics in his field, rejects the descriptors 'cult' and 'sect.' If you listen to his conference presentations, you would not find him to be a cult apologist. Not buying into the anti-cult movement with all its misrepresentations does not make him an apologist. He is a Catholic.

66

Watchtower fined in Belgium

by Vanderhoven7 in

jehovah's witnesses in belgium have to pay €12k fine for shunning policy.

news.

you have probably heard of the trial going on in belgium about the shunning policy of jws.

vienne

While it is not a popular opinion here, becoming a JW is a voluntary association. The government in power where we live is not a voluntary association. "Big Brother" is a reference to governmental power derived from the novel 1984. It doesn't fit Jehovah's Witnesses.

Probably a more accurate description of Witness practice is that it is intrusive and high control.

You didn't need me to be pedantic, did you? But I couldn't resist.

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