Posts by vienne

29

Were You Ever Interested In Early Watchtower History?

by minimus in

i also was intrigued by the russellites and the break away sects that formed before and after charles taze russell.

i can only imagine what the bible students were thinking when rutherford became the next watchtower president..

vienne

My mom and uncle got me interested. I read all three of their books, a biography of Nelson Barbour, the guy from Rochester, and the first two volumes of Separate Identity. I find early Russell history fascinating. Uncle B tells me that George Cryssides has a new book on Witnesses coming out in September or so, but it's about modern Witnesses not Russellites. I want to read it. B read the rough drafts and says he'll review it on his history blog after publication.

Most of you already know about his blog, I think. But in case some don't, it's here: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/

As I see it, subject to revision later, Russell was a sincere but big headed man. Anyone who self-identifies as the faithful and wise servant has issues. Only Jesus can make that designation. And as the parable suggests it's made publicly. Making it yourself is at the very least, unwise. Besides, it's a parable, not a prophecy.

24

Prince Harry: I've suffered genetic pain

by LoveUniHateExams in

lol, i'm sorry, but is this n*gga serious?.

yes, he suffered his mother dying when he was 12, and his father charles maybe wasn't the best hands-on father.. but 'genetic pain'?

wtf is this shit?.

vienne

I don't know what Harry meant. There are persistent genetically based neurological problems in the royal family, apparently from intermarriage. Same is true of those related to the Habsburgs. Essentially what killed my mom. This does cause stress and in some permutations behavior problems.

But as I said, I do not know if that's what he meant. Family stress is not fun. I've seen enough of it to know all I want is peace in family relationships. I can sympathize with a wealthy man who has problems his money cannot solve.

40

What is your status (as of today) as a Jehovah's Witness?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

active believer...still attend meetings, go out in field service, believe it's ''the truth''.

active non-believer... go to meetings and field service to please family... living a double life .

inactive believer...don't attend meetings but believe it's the truth, one day might go back to kingdom hall.

vienne

I'm none of those. I am not now, nor have I ever been a member. But, I plan on writing my master's thesis on the Witnesses, probably on their approach to education from the Russell era to today. I can accept the Bible as God's word. I do not accept the Watchtower's approach to it or its authoritarianism. But then I have yet to find a religion that makes sense to me.

18

Narrowly focused, sometimes illiterate

by vienne in

three of my sisters - there are five of us - were baptized as witnesses.

one of them has gone from reading voraciously to only reading her textbooks and watchtower publications.

this does not seem to be unusual among witnesses.

vienne

A significant portion of the population, not just Witnesses resist reading. Reading quality writing does not of itself motivate one to improve. Setting a good example? Where were you in the 1970s. Go back and read the Watchtowers from then and tell me about its good example. Yes, it is better now. And no, I wasn't around then, but I have read them. The writing example set now is suitable for fifth graders, not adults.

You wrote: "Watchtower does not fear the informed, questioning believer as you allege but fears those who seek to undermine genuine intellectual inquiry and freedom using unquestioned, critical scholarship which lacks coherence and unity of thought."

That's nonsense. Define "genuine intellectual inquiry." To Witnesses that's reading what's in Watchtower product and believing it uncritically. If we take you at your at your word, nothing outside the Watchtower is a genuine intellectual inquiry. I will grant that this site attracts fallacious, ill-considered expositions. But that's beside the point. Any thoughtful, well founded research that differs from Watchtower dogma exposes one to charges of heresy resulting in expulsion.

You admit that the Watchtower "fears those who seek to undermine" Watchtower doctrine. Why, if you have the Truth, would you fear falsehood?

You write: "The present modern era provides the opportunity at least for advancement and this fact must be recognized and even if such ones are merely competent report or essay writers then that surely is worthy attainment for not all can be or want to be grammarians."

This has no bearing on the issue at hand. It is a non sequitur.

18

Narrowly focused, sometimes illiterate

by vienne in

three of my sisters - there are five of us - were baptized as witnesses.

one of them has gone from reading voraciously to only reading her textbooks and watchtower publications.

this does not seem to be unusual among witnesses.

vienne

I'm not certain that writing letters improves anyone's grammar. It can just as easily reinforce bad habits by repeating an error many times. Posts on the internet? You meant that as a joke - I hope. Read twitter or face book and tell me that again. The typical facebook post is questionable. Read some of the comments on this board written by Witness trained people. Writing posts has not improve their writing ability.

That your "community" publishes much literature in many languages says nothing about the grammar of your congregants, some of whom do not understand what they read. And it reinforces my comments on the narrow focus of many Witnesses. Note that I did not say the majority. Just 'many.'

And I make this additional assertion: The Watchtower fears an informed, questioning believer. They view them with suspicion.

Completing high school is not a guarantee of anything. Many U.S. colleges have sub 100 level courses to bring students up to an acceptable level. Mind you, that's not to make them grammarians, just approximately competent report and essay writers.

21

Do you still talk to the dubs?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

just wondering!

.

vienne

I like my witness relatives I'm welcome in their homes. I happily debate scripture. I baby sit their children sometimes. Yes, I talk to Witnesses. My mom never turned one away, and I don't either. Most are good people, and while I disagree doctrinally, I see most Witnesses as earnest Christians.

18

Narrowly focused, sometimes illiterate

by vienne in

three of my sisters - there are five of us - were baptized as witnesses.

one of them has gone from reading voraciously to only reading her textbooks and watchtower publications.

this does not seem to be unusual among witnesses.

vienne

Three of my sisters - there are five of us - were baptized as Witnesses. One of them has gone from reading voraciously to only reading her textbooks and Watchtower publications. This does not seem to be unusual among Witnesses. I know this is not the only path taken by Witnesses. One of my uncles reads widely and was for some years a professor. But of my relatives, near and rather distant, who have become Witnesses the tendency seems to be a sole focus on the newspaper and Watchtower books. Why is this?

Also, I notice that many Witnesses have poor grammar. Again, not all, but enough to notice. I realize that the Watchtower discourages a university education. But some Witnesses scramble the English language. Certainly, the Watchtower Society encourages attention to lessons even if they'd rather have their members go on to trade school rather than university. I do not mean that they use casual grammar. Most do that in conversation. I mean their grammar is sometimes so poor that it is hard to follow.

I am at a loss. I cannot explain this. Your thoughts?

11

Disassociated for smoking at 15 years old then later after years of shinning befriended again.

by TjHunt in

after my 4 and 6 year old sisters and i (5) were molested and covered up by elders, at 15 i'm disassociated for smoking.

then years later after attending a passover with family members, i'm not suddenly disassociated anymore and attempted befriending begins.

wow.

vienne

I'm not sad. I'm skeptical. I have the upmost compassion for those who have suffered at the Watchtower's hands. There is no clear statistical analysis, but there seem to have been many who've been abused in one form or another, and not just sexually. But false stories, and I still think this is one, distract from real tragedies.

I'm not here to score any sort of points. But I'm also not here to be gullible.

11

Disassociated for smoking at 15 years old then later after years of shinning befriended again.

by TjHunt in

after my 4 and 6 year old sisters and i (5) were molested and covered up by elders, at 15 i'm disassociated for smoking.

then years later after attending a passover with family members, i'm not suddenly disassociated anymore and attempted befriending begins.

wow.

vienne

Simon,

Do things similar to this occur? Oh, yes they do. Do false stories show up here? Absolutely. Should we swallow the false because we object to the Watchtower's abuse? No. I noted one word, but the entire tone marks it as written by someone pretending.

If I've misjudged the narrator, I am sorry. I do not think I have.

11

Disassociated for smoking at 15 years old then later after years of shinning befriended again.

by TjHunt in

after my 4 and 6 year old sisters and i (5) were molested and covered up by elders, at 15 i'm disassociated for smoking.

then years later after attending a passover with family members, i'm not suddenly disassociated anymore and attempted befriending begins.

wow.

vienne

Diog,

At seven years old my young cousin knows that the annual celebration is not called "Passover." Even the most disinterested Witness child would know that. There are other elements in the original post that do not fit Witness usage that even a young person who would rather be playing a video game would not use.