vienne

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Posts by vienne

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  27

  Disfellowshiping only began in 1952!! Before this Witnesses were immoral!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many witnesses lived together in sin or had many wives before 1952 during the rutherford era, this was frowned apoun but no one was disfellowshiped unless they did something major like critisize rutherford!

  then in watch.

  may 15 1944 and finally watch 1/3 1952, disfellowshiping was invented.

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  vienne

  No circuit overseers in the 1930s.

  I interviewed an old-time Witness for Uncle B's research. She reported that in the mid-1940s, the "Company Servant" in Salinas, California, ran away with a 15 year old girl. But things like that do not mean they didn't expel from the congregation. As I understand it, because 'trials' were very public, many congregations were reluctant to tread that path. If you want to see what open congregation trials were like find the Golden Age report on Rutherford expelling the Canadian Branch Servant. I've forgotten the exact date, though I believe it was between 1935-1937.

  The Watchtower in the 1920s-1930s had repeated warnings about behavior. One of the most interesting to me was a 1924 article on strong personal differences.
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  39

  Snakes had legs until Eden curse! Watchtower 1880 till 1974!!!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  often flicking through watchtower bound volumes i would see pictures of eden which shows the snake in the tree of knowledge with legs??

  even the photo drama of creation shows a snake with legs.. watchtower 1964 p.352 "genisis 3;14 {snake}on your belly you will go and dust you shall eat...before god curse it the snake had legs, that elivated it above the ground...god transformed it's body so that it ceased to have legs and was able to move on it's belly.".

  god's eternal purpose 1974 "god did not put a curse on the whole serpent family...it had only been victimized by satan.. forrest gump watchtower science is price-less!.

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  vienne

  "they used to show pictures of the "vestigial rear limbs" on such species as certain Boas to prove that this happened as they taught. It you teach it in your magazines"

  Can you cite an example. I'd love to see that.
• 
  39

  Snakes had legs until Eden curse! Watchtower 1880 till 1974!!!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  often flicking through watchtower bound volumes i would see pictures of eden which shows the snake in the tree of knowledge with legs??

  even the photo drama of creation shows a snake with legs.. watchtower 1964 p.352 "genisis 3;14 {snake}on your belly you will go and dust you shall eat...before god curse it the snake had legs, that elivated it above the ground...god transformed it's body so that it ceased to have legs and was able to move on it's belly.".

  god's eternal purpose 1974 "god did not put a curse on the whole serpent family...it had only been victimized by satan.. forrest gump watchtower science is price-less!.

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  vienne

  One never knows, of course.

  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/a-fossil-snake-with-four-legs

  https://www.science.org/content/article/four-legged-snake-fossil-stuns-scientists-and-ignites-controversy
  
  
• 
  27

  Disfellowshiping only began in 1952!! Before this Witnesses were immoral!

  by Witness 007 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many witnesses lived together in sin or had many wives before 1952 during the rutherford era, this was frowned apoun but no one was disfellowshiped unless they did something major like critisize rutherford!

  then in watch.

  may 15 1944 and finally watch 1/3 1952, disfellowshiping was invented.

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  vienne

  Disfellowshipping as a Watch Tower practice extends back to Russell's day, though it has taken differing forms. Into the 1930s matters were handled by a public trial and congregation vote. This changed in the 1940s. Organizational Instructions for the Kingdom Publisher, 1945 edition says:

  "If a brother sees a fellow publisher do that which is out of harmony with the Lord's organization and His instructions, he should not gossip among others; but he would do well to go to his brother and in a kind manner call his attention to his shortcomings. If an individual associated with a company persists in wrongdoing and does not act according to the Lord's Word and direction as becoming of Christians, then the representative members of the congregation who are the servants in the company, the mature ones or elders, can decide what shall be done with such person. (Deut. 21:18-21; Matt. 18:15-18) The Scriptural admonition is to have nothing to do with such an individual (Rom. 16:17; Titus 3:10) The elders would so advice the congregation (1 cor. 5:11-13) Later if genuine repentance is shown by the dismissed offender the elders may order that he be received back in their midst. - Prov. 17:10; 2 Cor. 2:6-11 7:8-12; 2 Thess. 3:14, 15."

  H. H. Stroup's book should be used with care. It is full of errors and contrived material. See Schulz: Separate Identity, vol, 2 introduction where examples of Stroup's fakery are given.
• 
  49

  Charles Taze Russell & His Secret Mission To S. California That Killed Him

  by West70 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the last 5 months of charles taze russell's life was quite hectic, and according to reports in the watch tower magazine, russell's health was declining throughout.

  in september, 1916, russell went on a convention train tour which lasted nearly the entire month.

  this train tour included stops in several southern california locations around the 8th through the 12th.

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  vienne

  Russell died of acute, untreated cystitis. In 1916 cystitis had a much higher mortality rate than today. No antibiotics, of course. Russell persisted with his trip despite warning to stay home, drink lots of water and rest. I suppose he felt obligated to make the trip, or was so enamored with self that he felt the trip necessary.

  There is no mystery in this. No conspiracy. Just a bit of self delusion and stupidity.

  My grand uncle met McMillan and others back in the day. His side of the family can be found in letters to Zion's Watch Tower. Me? Never a Witness. Just a fascinated onlooker.
• 
  27

  Governing Body's failed doctrines blamed on Jehovah's gradual revealment

  by RULES & REGULATIONS in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh9w8zmgli0.

  ( starts at the 21:00 minute mark ) governing body member jeffrey winder reveals the real reason for the failed doctrines throughout the watchtower's 150 year history.

  he claims that the governing body are neither inspired or infallible.. the governing body do not need to apologize for getting doctrines wrong.. the governing body ''do their best with what they have and what they understand at the time.''.

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  vienne

  I agree that learning is a series of steps and plateaus. I get that. And I understand that thoughts and ideas actively pursued become clearer with time. BUT, setting out doctrine that is largely or entirely error should bring an apology.

  How does this differ from Lloyd Boy the Fat's refusal to apologize? Some genuine repentance is in order. Isn't it?
• 
  5

  Belgian court decision

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://bitterwinter.org/the-ghent-saga-ends-belgium-cassation-court-confirms-that-shunning-is-lawful/.

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  vienne

  https://bitterwinter.org/the-ghent-saga-ends-belgium-cassation-court-confirms-that-shunning-is-lawful/
  
• 
  2909

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  vienne

  "Maybe “god” will be his excuse to the community for dropping the suit, seeing as he seems to have found a new spiritual focus."

  More likely he's just say the court failed in its duty.
• 
  2909

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  vienne

  I wonder how many of his free patreons subscribe just to watch him crash and burn.
• 
  2909

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  vienne

  Playing the Victim

  Because narcissists are unable to take an honest look at their behaviors or relationships, they have no “governor” in their efforts to manipulate others. When they are unable to manage situations, rather than take responsibility, they will play the victim and look for others to blame for their own mistakes or poor judgments. They use guilt as a tool to get their needs met at the expense of others.

  As their worlds shrink along with their influence, narcissists may amp up the lashing out that they do towards others. As their control over others loosens, they may revel in their opportunities to play the victim. Whether it’s with family or paid caregivers, narcissists tend to find reasons to position their own discomfort or poor choices as the failings of others who should have the narcissist’s best interest at heart.

  From: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lifetime-connections/202309/how-do-i-manage-narcissistic-parents-as-they-age