Posts by vienne

32

Do you know who wrote ...

by vienne in

do you know who wrote the 1959 watchtower book jehovah's witnesses in the divine purpose?

anyone?.

vienne

Do you know who wrote the 1959 Watchtower book Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose? Anyone?

3

Need help locating Watchtower Letter

by vienne in

some time ago the wt sent out a letter considering how to respond to academic researchers seeking information.

i thought i had a copy but apparently i do not.

can someone help me locate this, please?.

vienne

It was in my file folder. I got the dates wrong. April 25, 2001, for the United States and July 1, 2002, for the United Kingdom. Same letter. I do not know if you can find this online.

Quick check leads me to here: https://avoidjw.org/en/publications/letters-2000-2009/

3

Need help locating Watchtower Letter

by vienne in

some time ago the wt sent out a letter considering how to respond to academic researchers seeking information.

i thought i had a copy but apparently i do not.

can someone help me locate this, please?.

Serious Problems Between Elders

by ZindagiNaMilegiDobaara in

ever encountered or eyewitnessed problems escalating, arguements and rows between elders right at the kh anyone?.

one such experience was just before the meeting was about to start,we heard raised voices from the second room between two elders.

a minute later two other elders went into the room and we could all hear that they were trying to cool the situation down with whatever was going on in there.

When I was very young and attending with my mother, then a new Witness, an elder in the neighboring congregation that shared the hall walked over to another elder just before the meeting started and socked him in the jaw, landing him on his back. It was quite a topic of conversation. As you can imagine.

While the 'smiter' lost his eldership, I heard several comments to the effect that the elder he hit 'more than deserved it.' Oh well ...

3

Need help locating Watchtower Letter

by vienne in

some time ago the wt sent out a letter considering how to respond to academic researchers seeking information.

i thought i had a copy but apparently i do not.

can someone help me locate this, please?.

vienne

Some time ago the WT sent out a letter considering how to respond to academic researchers seeking information. I thought I had a copy but apparently I do not. Can someone help me locate this, please?

9

The important question : loyalty and devotion to whom, the leaders of the WTS/JWorg. or Jesus Christ ?

by Finkelstein in

since 1919 the men who ran the wts.

publishing house proclaimed that god jehovah has chosen the ibsa later on the jehovah's witnesses, in that they were solemnly chosen exclusively for their close adherence and accurate interpretation of the bible.. .

the truthful reality is quite the contrary, the doctrines these men created were many times false and unscriptural , causing great personal problems including suicides and deaths to those who made themselves devoted to these men.. during the baptism of becoming a jws you would have to make a sworn vow of devotion to these men, who self describe themselves as the fdsl.. in reading the bible and the words of jesus christ it's obvious the leaders of this organization enacted themselves in apostasy opposed to the directions handed out by jesus in preaching his gospel.. they became discreetly unloyal to god as it were and lured in many to do the same in acts of coercion utilized by their publishing capabilities and the distribution of their literature to the public... .

vienne

Ulti,

Good observation. But probably more causative was tension between P. S. L. Johnson and Rutherford. In 1918 Johnson wrote the first of many prophetic expositions using typology and casting Rutherford's party as the bad'uns. Rutherford replied in kind. And the Watchtower fell into a spiritualizing typology they are now - finally - abandoning. Rutherford seems to have truly believed what he wrote. It gave him and Watchtower adherents a clear self-identity.Tension between Johnson and Rutherford persisted until Rutherford's death.

Once religions start down this path they develop a centralized ecclesiastical structure with one man or a group of men in a semi-divine position. If you want to read more about this phenomenon you might consult Clarke Garrett's Respectable Folly: Millenarians and the French Revolution in France and England. [Johns Hopkins University Press, 1975]

9

The important question : loyalty and devotion to whom, the leaders of the WTS/JWorg. or Jesus Christ ?

by Finkelstein in

since 1919 the men who ran the wts.

publishing house proclaimed that god jehovah has chosen the ibsa later on the jehovah's witnesses, in that they were solemnly chosen exclusively for their close adherence and accurate interpretation of the bible.. .

the truthful reality is quite the contrary, the doctrines these men created were many times false and unscriptural , causing great personal problems including suicides and deaths to those who made themselves devoted to these men.. during the baptism of becoming a jws you would have to make a sworn vow of devotion to these men, who self describe themselves as the fdsl.. in reading the bible and the words of jesus christ it's obvious the leaders of this organization enacted themselves in apostasy opposed to the directions handed out by jesus in preaching his gospel.. they became discreetly unloyal to god as it were and lured in many to do the same in acts of coercion utilized by their publishing capabilities and the distribution of their literature to the public... .

vienne

I know and have interviewed many Witnesses. I have relatives who are Witnesses. There are Witnesses who worship God and Christ. But they're rare creatures. When forced to analyze whom they obey, most see anything from the Watchtower as if it came from God. This is not the same as trusting your brothers. It is worship.

15

William Redding

by Bobcat in

is anyone familiar with this person and his possible relationship with ctr or the wt?.

if you are wondering why i ask, take a look here and scroll down one page and start reading a little.. i could not find any mention of him in the wt online library.

i wonder if this is something barbara anderson would be familiar with?.

vienne

Russell was addicted to medical books published for the public. These included suggestions on home treatment some of which are banned today, or just silly. He was not anti-medicine. In fact a number of his prominent followers were physicians.

The anti- and quack- medicine views came from the Golden Age's editor who read among other authors Bernar McFadden. Russell did not share those views. This is a product of the 1920s. In Russell's day medical practice in the USA was divided into several strands: Ecclectic, Homeopathic, Allopathic [today's MDs, the term is now considered pejorative], and Herbal. Barbour was an 'electric physician.' This was seen as valid medical treatment in that era; several of Barbour's advertisements for his medical practice exist. Russell was attracted to advice from all of these. Russell considered manufacturing and selling a common remedy [Compound Oxygen] for the benefit of the brotherhood but decided against it. This was prompted by John Corbin Sunderlin's claim of relief from chronic pain, the result of Civil War wounds. A letter from Sunderlin to the maker of Compound Oxygen was used as an endorsement by the company.

Yes, Redding got it from Russell. An Advent Christian writer also pointed to 1914, but seems to have gotten it from Elliott's Horae. Others included things Russell wrote in their own writing without being Russellites. This wasn't as uncommon as one might think. In the late 19th and early 20th Century it was not exceptional for religious people to think they were God's mouthpiece. But each of them borrowed ideas from others. In Russell's case some call him a plagiarist. He does not, in my opinion, reach that level. But he was influenced by others. And this includes his views of medicine.

In the Russell v. Russell transcript he talks about treating members of the Bethel staff with remedies. These were derived from physician-authored books such as R. V. Pierce's Common Sense Medical Adviser in Plain English; or Medicine Simplified. These were printed by the hundreds and advice from them appeared in almanacs. Russell did not reject medical practice.

15

William Redding

by Bobcat in

is anyone familiar with this person and his possible relationship with ctr or the wt?.

if you are wondering why i ask, take a look here and scroll down one page and start reading a little.. i could not find any mention of him in the wt online library.

i wonder if this is something barbara anderson would be familiar with?.

vienne

The anti-Doctor, anti-vaccination stance arose under Rutherford, not under Russell.

15

William Redding

by Bobcat in

is anyone familiar with this person and his possible relationship with ctr or the wt?.

if you are wondering why i ask, take a look here and scroll down one page and start reading a little.. i could not find any mention of him in the wt online library.

i wonder if this is something barbara anderson would be familiar with?.

vienne

Barbour adopted the 1914 date in the 1870s. The first mention of the 1914 date as the end of The Times of the Gentiles is in the September 1875 issue of The Herald of the Morning. In passing Barbour remarked, “The time of the Gentiles,” viz. Their seven prophetic times of 2520 years ... which began when God gave all into the hands of Nebuchadnezzar, in 606 B. C; do not end until 1914."

Russell accepted that. From Separate Identity [pages 216-217]:

Russell wrote an article entitled “Gentile Times: When Do They End?” for The Bible Examiner while still in Philadelphia. It was published in the October 1876 issue. Though his position on Gentile Times was the same as that held by Barbour, he didn’t mention Barbour or the Herald of the Morning, and Barbour discounted this as an open association with him.[1] Russell pointed to 1914, the date Barbour borrowed from Elliott’s Horae, and stated his belief that the ‘taking of the Bride’ was the first act to expect from the Christ:

"At the commencement of our Christian era, 606 years of this time had passed, (70 years captivity, and 536 from Cyrus to Christ) which deducted from 2520, would show that the seven times will end in A.D. 1914; when Jerusalem shall be delivered forever, and the Jew say of the Deliverer, “Lo, this is our God, we have waited for Him and He will save us.” When Gentile Governments shall have been dashed to pieces; when God shall have poured out of his fury upon the nation, and they acknowledge, him King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

But, some one will say, “If the Lord intended that we should know, He would have told us plainly and distinctly how long.” But, no, brethren, He never does so. The Bible is to be a light to God’s children; – to the world, foolishness. Many of its writings are solely for our edification upon whom the ends of the world are come. As well say that God should have put the gold on top instead of in the bowels of the earth it would be too common; it would lose much of its value. So with truth; but, “to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom.

We will ask, but not now answer, another question: If the Gentile Times end in 1914, (and there are many other and clearer evidences pointing to the same time) and we are told that it shall be with fury poured out; a time of trouble such as never was before, nor ever shall be; a day of wrath, etc., how long before does the church escape? As Jesus says, 'watch, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape those things coming upon the world.'"

Brethren, the taking by Christ of His Bride, is evidently, one of the first acts in the Judgment; for judgment must begin at the house of God.

[1] C. T. Russell: Gentile Times: When Do They End? Bible Examiner, October 1876. The article is signed from “W. Philadelphia.”