vienne

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Posts by vienne

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  4

  Mom's book

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mom's book, still only available on lulu, got its first review: .

  http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html.

  "like topsy it just growed.

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  vienne

  The latest review of Separate Identity vol 2.

  By Andrew Grzadzielewski

  Mar 15, 2020

  For anyone interested in the history of the Watchtower Society, this book is a MUST read. And not only this book, Separate Identity Volume 2, but also its predecessor, Separate Identity Volume 1. Both books in the series bring to light information about the early days of the Watchtower Society that even the Watchtower Society's own official histories do not. In particular, those fascinated by the person of Charles Taze Russell, who are interested in a more detailed look into his background, the evolution of his belief system, and his relationship to those who both revered and reviled him, this book will be a treasure. Some considered Russell a saint, others a con man. The true picture of Russell and his associates is much more complicated, and the incredibly comprehensive details Schulz and de Vienne have unearthed make this book one you will likely have trouble putting down. In the book, filled with astonishing detail, the authors have carefully followed Russell's journey through several decades of his life, and thoroughly give multiple insights into the mind of the man, how he came to believe what he believed, who influenced him, what teachings from others he accepted, which ones he rejected, and what motivated many of his readers to modify their own belief systems. An incredible amount of research has gone into telling the stories of dozens of people who became WatchTower adherents, some of whom stayed with Russell, and others who drifted away into other beliefs. In many cases their stories have never been told. Their histories are an essential part of the WatchTower story. In particular, Russell's belief about his own identity as an instrument used by God springs in large part from the enormous amount of letters he received from grateful readers, many who saw him as such an instrument. Using original sources, Schulz and de Vienne have shone a light on a period of WatchTower history many had thought was unrecoverable. They humbly concede that their work is only preliminary; but even if it is, the comprehensive nature of their work will surprise many who either thought they know much about WatchTower history, or had lost hope that it would ever come to light in such astonishing detail. Get this book! And then lend it out to anyone you know who has an interest in 19th and 20th century religion. It is a story that should have been told long ago. It is a monumental achievement.
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  4

  Mom's book

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mom's book, still only available on lulu, got its first review: .

  http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html.

  "like topsy it just growed.

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  vienne

  Vol 2 has about twice as many pages making it more expensive. Zoe Knox's book is nearly $100. That makes Separate Identity 2 more than reasonabe in price.
  
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  17

  End of world predictions/ JW's

  by exwhyzee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i thought this was an interesting site that discusses end of world predictions.

  http://www.humanreligions.info/the_end_of_the_world.html.

  there are additional links at the end of this page.

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  vienne

  Neither Bible Students nor Jehovah's Witnesses believe in or ever believe in the end of the world. They believe in a divine judgment, not the Adventist end of the world. They reject end of the world theology.
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  4

  Mom's book

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mom's book, still only available on lulu, got its first review: .

  http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html.

  "like topsy it just growed.

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  vienne

  Mom's book, still only available on lulu, got its first review:

  http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24467519.html

  "Like topsy it just growed. That paraphrased nod towards Uncle Tom’s Cabin can be applied to this series of books. It started off small, or at least as a limited project. Then it grew. And grew. It is still growing. That is not a criticism but singles this book as different from the rest when it comes to Watch Tower and related history. The two authors, Bruce Schulz and the late Rachael de Vienne, first produced a book on Nelson Barbour, the forgotten prophet. That was intended as a journal article, but it grew into a book. A follow-up, Separate Identity, was designed as a stand alone book, tracing the history of the Watch Tower Society from its pre-history with young Charles Taze Russell up to its emergence as a separate movement. That one volume has now grown into two, and a third is needed to complete the story. This makes the books special. Had there been a commercial publisher, an editor would have been ruthless and cut them down to size. Out would have gone the details, the digressions, the multitude of footnotes and references to send obsessive researchers down other research trails. A casual reader interested in Watch Tower history has other options, but for a serious researcher the Schulz and de Vienne series fills in the gaps and rescues numerous individuals and events from obscurity. No-one else has ever done that. Do you need to have volume one before reading volume two? Ideally it would help, but is not essential. Volume one doesn’t even get up to the first issue of Zion’s Watch Tower. The volume under review basically starts with the original Watchtower magazine, goes onto Food for Thinking Christians, and sets the scene for a worldwide witnessing work that indeed started small, but grew. It If your interest only really starts in 1879, then you can leap straight into this volume, although you will find references to the first volume in it. The authors strive to be neither apologists nor polemicists, but even-handed, going where the evidence takes them. Like most readers this reviewer has a point of view which doesn’t always square with everything in the book, but they can be credited with a valiant effort to be fair. If your interest has got you as far as looking up this book and reading the reviews, then takes my word for it - this has to be a book for you."

  He didn't like mom's criticism of the modern Watchtower. But he otherwise liked the book. And he gave it five stars. There's a convoluted process to get the book on amazon and other bookseller sites. I don't know why.

  
  
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  2

  Separate Identity - Volume Two

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mom and b’s book went to the publisher today.

  it will not be available for purchase for maybe three weeks or so, a little later than hoped.

  i’ve read it through twice.

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  vienne

  B told me it is available today via lulu.com but not yet on Amazon or elsewhere until a bit later.

  http://www.lulu.com/shop/b-w-schulz/separate-identity-organizational-identity-among-readers-of-zions-watch-tower-1870-1887-volume-2-culture-and-organization/paperback/product-24466010.html
  
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  2

  Separate Identity - Volume Two

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mom and b’s book went to the publisher today.

  it will not be available for purchase for maybe three weeks or so, a little later than hoped.

  i’ve read it through twice.

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  vienne

  Mom and B’s book went to the publisher today. It will not be available for purchase for maybe three weeks or so, a little later than hoped. But let me tell you about it. I’ve read it through twice. If you do not like long books, it’s not for you. Counting the two introductory essays it is 607 pages long. If you read volume one, you’ll probably remember that it took the story from Russell’s antecedents to his separation from Barbour. This volume follows that. It does not consider all the divisions and strife that took place, but focuses on the foundation years of Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society. Mom and Bruce Schulz pushed all the divisions and that sort of thing off into a volume three.

  I may be prejudice because Mom wrote it, but I think her preface is one of the best parts of the book. B in his essay takes a certain class of writers to task for bad work and touches on the origins of Russell era Watch Tower faith. It’s good. He shows that some writers whom he names made things up. Mom’s essay is mildly critical of the Watchtower Society. The criticisms set off a storm of protest from Witnesses who read parts of it on their history blog. But it’s mild and fair. The best part is a discussion of the historic antecedents of Russell’s beliefs. It is different than you might expect, and not much like some of the things you read on this discussion board.

  Unlike most books about Watchtower thinking and history, Mom and B tell you about people you probably never hear of before. Russell did not make the Watch Tower Society on his own. So they tell you about early evangelists the modern Watchtower ignores, some of whom left that religion. This is not a redo of Proclaimers. There is a huge amount of detail that I think recreates Watch Tower history in a very vivid way. An example is an examination of early Watch Tower finances. And names – people who do not appear in books written by Witnesses who further the story, J. B. Adamson for one.

  There is no fake scandal here. But real life events. How about a Watch Tower evangelist who disrupted a Presbyterian meeting to throw tracts at the clergymen meeting there? There are two chapters that narrowly focus on specific early believers. One is English and the other was a prominent Southern writer who was a bit odd. More than a bit.

  I really can’t tell you about Mom’s book in any detail or this would be a very, very long post. But there’s a chapter on early clergymen who joined in the movement. Some stayed with it, and some did not. There are some fairly detailed and revealing biographies of early evangelists and adherents with pictures! I like historic photos. Don’t you? Bet you’ve never seen most of these.

  The focus is very narrow. Mostly it's on the years from 1879 to 1881. They expected to go to heaven in 1881. They didn't. Volume 3 will take us up to 1887, the end of this thee volume book and the start of the next, projected to cover 1887 to 1916.

  There are biographies of some who left the Watch Tower in the early days, people the modern Watchtower ignores. There is a chapter on how and why the Watch Tower grew, one on the earliest days of Zion’s Watch Tower that tells you about Maria Russell’s place in it. I loved this book.

  Look for it in about three weeks on lulu.com or Amazon or other bookseller sites.

  -Annie
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  71

  Jehovah's Witnesses DENY the Physical Bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

  by JW Answers in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jehovah's witnesses are taught by their organisation that christ's body was disposed by jehovah god, they deny the physical bodily resurrection and explain that he rose again as a spirit creature.

  as we take into account what the watchtower teach, i explain from the bible that christ rose again from the grave in his body, and showing forth that the jehovah's witnesses are in error.

  in this video i cover:

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  vienne

  Joen,

  You are still making assertions without providing us with scriptural proof. Firm belief in something does not make it true.
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  71

  Jehovah's Witnesses DENY the Physical Bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ

  by JW Answers in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the jehovah's witnesses are taught by their organisation that christ's body was disposed by jehovah god, they deny the physical bodily resurrection and explain that he rose again as a spirit creature.

  as we take into account what the watchtower teach, i explain from the bible that christ rose again from the grave in his body, and showing forth that the jehovah's witnesses are in error.

  in this video i cover:

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  vienne

  Joen,

  It would help if you could back up your belief with explicit scriptural argument. You've given us your feelings and belief, but no scriptural proof.
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  23

  Russell's followers in British Columbia?

  by dubstepped in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was interviewing a guy for a podcast episode today and he went and saw his grandmother over christmas to gather some history.

  he wasn't raised a jw but it turns out his family was actually opposed to the jws because they went all the way back to russell.

  according to him (from her stories), they refused to follow rutherford and that's where the split took place.

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  vienne

  Sounds like the Elijah Voice Society. I think they were also called Stand Fast Society.
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  8

  Update on Mom's Book.

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  separate identity, volume 2, co-authored by my mom, is scheduled for release in march.

  b. w. schulz, the series editor and mom's co-author has posted an update.

  https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

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  vienne

  lulu which best funds research; b and n; amazon; and a dozen places elsewhere round the world. B hasn't decided on who will do the ebook; that will either be lulu or smashwords.