Posts by vienne

16

Do Jehovah's Witnesses shun non-believers and those who leave the faith?

by Vanderhoven7 in

graeme hammond writes:.

in his 2002 book that examined the behaviour and practices of jehovah’s witnesses, english sociologist andrew holden devoted an entire chapter to the trauma and friction experienced by those who choose to leave the jehovah’s witness religion.

“those who do eventually break free,” he concluded, “are seldom allowed a dignified exit.”.

vienne

Isn't the answer that Jehovah's Witnesses see those outside the faith as contaminates? They see those who've left as a kind of virulent bacteria. Don't touch. Wash your hands. Isolate.

33

Former Elder, Pioneer and WT Writer Earns 9 Science Degrees - Jerry Bergman, Ph.D., BiologyJerry Bergman, Ph.D., Biology

by Sea Breeze in

jerry bergman, ph.d., biology.

biography.

jerry bergman has taught biology, genetics, chemistry, biochemistry, anthropology, geology, and microbiology at northwest state college in archbold oh for over 25 years.

vienne

It is obvious that we're not getting anywhere. You seem him as some sort of hero of the faith. I see him as having a cloud over his reputation. I see no reason to change my opinion. You can keep yours.

This discussion, from my pov, isn't about his belief in Creation. I believe in Creation as presented in the Bible. It's about his honesty and the value of what he's written. I do not hold him in the same esteem as you do.

33

Former Elder, Pioneer and WT Writer Earns 9 Science Degrees - Jerry Bergman, Ph.D., BiologyJerry Bergman, Ph.D., Biology

by Sea Breeze in

jerry bergman, ph.d., biology.

biography.

jerry bergman has taught biology, genetics, chemistry, biochemistry, anthropology, geology, and microbiology at northwest state college in archbold oh for over 25 years.

vienne

You make unwarranted presumptions. His case failed because the court of first instance found that he misrepresented his credentials, and that there was no evidence that he was fired for opposition to his Creationist opinions.

I did not say I support evolution. I said that the society he represents as prestigious does not meet that standard. Both mother and Uncle B hold PhDs in history. Uncle B's dissertation forms the bulk of the two volumes of Separate Identity, available on Amazon. True to form, you're tying a persons' claims to his opinions. If he holds opinions similar to yours, he's good. If not, he's bad. That's not rational. It's also irrational to focus on others, in this case my mother or Uncle B, to divert attention.

I am aware that Bergman claims prejudice was the reason for his dismissal. The court and the appeals court did not make that finding. They found that there were grounds for dismissal in his misrepresentation of credentials. I would follow the court instead of pro-Bergman propagandists.

33

Former Elder, Pioneer and WT Writer Earns 9 Science Degrees - Jerry Bergman, Ph.D., BiologyJerry Bergman, Ph.D., Biology

by Sea Breeze in

jerry bergman, ph.d., biology.

biography.

jerry bergman has taught biology, genetics, chemistry, biochemistry, anthropology, geology, and microbiology at northwest state college in archbold oh for over 25 years.

vienne

My uncle would faint if I suggested he posted here. He has his own history blog. I'm Annie, Dr. de Vienne's youngest daughter. In it's fullness my name is Anastasia Marie. Everyone just calls me Annie. I'm a year away from my BA - History, and planning my master's thesis.

His court case: http://jehovah.to/gen/freedom/bergman.htm

Uncle's history blog: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/

Might contrast Uncle B with Bergman. B is a Fellow of the Royal Historical Society. Unlike the societies and 'clubs' to which Bergman claims membership, one becomes a Fellow of the Royal Society based on education and a body of superior work.

33

Former Elder, Pioneer and WT Writer Earns 9 Science Degrees - Jerry Bergman, Ph.D., BiologyJerry Bergman, Ph.D., Biology

by Sea Breeze in

jerry bergman, ph.d., biology.

biography.

jerry bergman has taught biology, genetics, chemistry, biochemistry, anthropology, geology, and microbiology at northwest state college in archbold oh for over 25 years.

vienne

S.B,

He has a history, noted by a court of law, of exaggerating and faking credentials. His list of academic and professional societies is questionable on the basis of membership requirements. You could 'join' many of them by simply paying a membership fee. Even when these societies are worthwhile in themselves, being a member does not grant any status unless membership [or fellowship] is based on a superior body of work. His memberships are not of that quality.

I understand he is your hero. He isn't mine, and I do not understand why he is yours. To the extent he pursued worthwhile education, good on him. But faking a credential, as a court of law said he did, is ethically flawed and leaves a permanent cloud over everything else he writes or claims.

Read the rest of the Columbia Pacific University wikedpedia article. Trace its decent into nonsense. Pointing to someone else's accomplishments does not validate Bergman. That's a logic flaw.

I can verify that Bergman has a BA or at least claimed a BA from Wayne State. Anything more? I'd like to see his transcripts. He claims a Fellowship from the 'prestigious" American Scientific Affiliation. This is a creationist society. Find another science based association - main stream not fringe - that sees them as prestigious in any way. S. B., your idol has clay feet.

33

Former Elder, Pioneer and WT Writer Earns 9 Science Degrees - Jerry Bergman, Ph.D., BiologyJerry Bergman, Ph.D., Biology

by Sea Breeze in

jerry bergman, ph.d., biology.

biography.

jerry bergman has taught biology, genetics, chemistry, biochemistry, anthropology, geology, and microbiology at northwest state college in archbold oh for over 25 years.

vienne

"Jerry Bergman, one of the many creationists who claim fake credentials as real (his “doctorate” is from Columbia Pacific University, an unaccredited diploma mill that was so bad that the courts shut it down in 2000.)"

"He considers himself one of the victims of persecution by "Darwinists", after he was denied tenure and dismissed from Bowling Green State University in 1978 “solely because of my beliefs and publications in the area of creationism”. He attempted, unsuccessfully, to take the university to court over religious discrimination. (It should be added that, in a signed letter published in David Duke's National Association of White People newsletter, he stated that “reverse racial discrimination was clearly part of the decision,” so even according to himself it cannot have been solely because of his religious beliefs.[12]) According to the courts, however, Bergman was terminated because of ethics, namely that he claimed to have credentials in psychology when, in fact, he “had no psychological credentials.”[13]"

33

Former Elder, Pioneer and WT Writer Earns 9 Science Degrees - Jerry Bergman, Ph.D., BiologyJerry Bergman, Ph.D., Biology

by Sea Breeze in

jerry bergman, ph.d., biology.

biography.

jerry bergman has taught biology, genetics, chemistry, biochemistry, anthropology, geology, and microbiology at northwest state college in archbold oh for over 25 years.

vienne

Most of the "associations" listed in his CV can be joined by anyone by simply paying a fee. Listing one you founded that is not recognized by any other professional body is window dressing. I've read his work. Most of it is disappointing and he's been accused of inflating his credentials. I'd take anything he wrote with a grain of salt.

I'm not certain what the original poster's point is. That you become smarter after leaving the Witnesses? Giftedness is genetic. It can be cultivated beyond its genetic foundation by use. But leaving a religion, while it may open up areas one's previous belief closed, does not make you smarter. Also, giftedness implies that one can make more 'associations' - associate more factors and facts - quicker than others. But IF your friend reaches the same conclusions you do, but two days later, are you truly better than they are?

And MENSA? I belong to MENSA. It's fun or boring depending on the day and who you're with. But it does not certify you as anything. Stalin probably qualified for MENSA. He acted stupidly.

6

An animated walk through of Watchtower's history

by The Old Testicle in

170 years of watchtower history.

this video was made using material researched from their own publications as well as outside sources.. this wasn't produced to bash the organisation but provide a background to its origin and path to today.

the organisation's falls on the merit that this is factual and not sensational.

vienne

Way too much that is inaccurate. Russell was not swayed by Millerism and his doctrines do not come from that source. He admired Miller for forcing people to look at Bible prophecies, but there were others, some of whom Russell names, that came before and who were greater influences on him.

Wendell did not start the Second Adventists. Not even close. See Isaac Wellcome's history of the second adventists movement for details.

A minor point is that Sunderlin and Bender, who Russell sent to Britain and Ireland to circulate Food for Thinking Christians, were not colporteurs and were not called such. They were there to make business contacts and to arrange for the printing of the UK version of "Food."

The errors in this video are many, and though I may note more later, I have a paper to write due on Monday. So that's it for now.

On the roots of Russell's belief system, try this:

Penton draws on Schulz and de Vienne's books. [Rachael de Vienne was my mom, just for clarity here. And yes, I'm a bit partisan] Their Separate Identity books are on Amazon and Lulu and other book sites. Mom and Schulz both held PhD's and Bruce Schulz is B. W. Schulz, PhD, FRHistS [Fellow of the Royal History Society]

17

Ghislaine Maxwell on trial

by LoveUniHateExams in

ghislaine maxwell is on trial for grooming underage girls for sex and joining in, apparently.. her defence has recently finished, with maxwell declining to take the stand herself because she, in her words, 'doesn't need to as the prosecution haven't proved their case beyond reasonable doubt'.. that's for the jury to decide, ghislaine, lol.

.

doesn't it strike you as arrogant that she can't be arsed to stand up and speak in her own defence?.

vienne

Not testifying in your own behalf is a Constitutional right. It's not an automatic indication of guilt. I think she's guilty, but I haven't really followed this. Child abuse issues upset me.

Are our rulers corrupt. Yes, every one of them down to the local level. And those that may not be corrupt are dumb as rocks.

11

Dimwits running the show

by punkofnice in

i often found that there were some real dimwits that thought they were marvellous.

a sort of dunning kruger spectrum going on.. donkeys leading princes.

just like our corrupt and retarded politicians.

vienne

Back in the day my granduncle wore a huge [well it look huge to me as a young child] silver pocket watch. A gold ornament hung from the chain. It was from a history honor society. One of the old women in his congregation accused him of wearing a cross. He thought that was funny. I thought it was moronic.