Citizens of the UK should be happy that they're a constitutional monarchy. If Charles had the power of medieval kings had, the joint kingdoms that make up the UK would descent into silliness and poverty. Unless Charles spent his time fornicating and drunk.
Posts by vienne
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King v. J. J. Ross Transcript
by vienne inmany have looked for the complete transcript.
as far as i know, it does not exist, except perhaps in the wt archives.
extracts are here: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2022/09/the-ross-libel-trial-transcript.html.
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vienne
Many have looked for the complete transcript. As far as I know, it does not exist, except perhaps in the WT archives. Extracts are here: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2022/09/the-ross-libel-trial-transcript.html
The extant extracts make out J. J. Ross to be a liar when it comes to the charge of perjury.
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Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?
by Sea Breeze inexamine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
- 2 cor.
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vienne
To suggest that Jesus in spread among all faithful, literally dwelling in them by some spirit indwelling is Spiritualism. And it is not the thought behind the original Greek preposition which while its basic meaning is 'in' is more faithfully rendered: (2 Corinthians 13:5 NLT): "Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith."
Alternatives would be "in your midst" "in union with." The NW translators chose "in union." The thought, then, is that Christ is in the body of faithful believers as our faith is in him. [See M. R. Vincent's comment]
Adam Clarke pointed out that the the examination Paul suggests is used of coinage. Coinage would be weighed, its content tested, and the false, the counterfeit, would be revealed. So, commenting on that portion of the verse we examine in this post, Clarke wrote: "If base metal be mixed with the pure you can readily detect it; as as easily may you know that you are in the faith ..."
Christ dwells among true Christians by Holy Spirit, not by dividing himself up in little pieces to somehow inhabit the body of individual Christians. He is "in" faithful Christians by their living and observing the true faith.
-Annie
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Wife's gone to visit distant relatives.......
by BoogerMan in......so i thought i'd treat myself; i placed an order with the acme escort agency.. damn it, they only had a fiesta available!.
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vienne
It's clever even if not belly-laugh producing. And some of those who read this won't get it. They do not know what a Ford Fiesta is/was. Or a Ford Escort.
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Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?
by Vanderhoven7 inatheists believe death is the end of personal existence.
but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?
in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.
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vienne
Gman, That's total nonsense. A parable is not an actual event. Even in suffering torment, asking for a single drop of water is improbable.
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Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?
by Vanderhoven7 inatheists believe death is the end of personal existence.
but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?
in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.
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vienne
Watchtower doctrine is that the Second Death is eternal punishment, a permanent extinction of existence. I think that's Biblical.
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Do you pray?
by Fisherman ini’ve always had a personal relationship with god that is not affected by any issues or controversies i have with anybody..
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vienne
Do I pray? Yes.
Does God listen? Maybe sometimes.
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Searchlight on Russellism
by vienne ini'm trying to help uncle b with his research.
he is seeking scans of a magazine published between 1915 and maybe 1917 entitled searchlight on russellism.
one issue is at harvard divinity school library.
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vienne
Thanks for that. Not exactly what I'm seeking but helpful nevertheless.
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Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford
by LoveUniHateExams ini was thinking a bit about this the other day.
ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.
some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....
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vienne
A secular biography of Russell said he had private tutors beyond 7th Grade. You fail to understand that he was educated under the now defunct "Common School" system which expected work from 7th graders that many of today's Jr. College students could not do. Uncle B wrote (Separate Identity, vol 1, p 29-30):
The YMCA gave him the opportunity to “do some good.” The YMCA was not the social club it is today. It existed to rescue sinners and to promote Christian work. He joined the Association in 1865 or 1866. The Pittsburgh Association was originally founded in 1854 but had become moribund. It was reorganized in 1865 and became a social force in the two cities. The Association offered evening classes in Commercial Law, Public Speaking and Parliamentary Law, Engineering Mathematics, Arithmetic, Working Mathematics, Electricity, Metallurgy, Chemistry, Architectural Drawing, Mechanical Drawing, Freehand Drawing and Designing, French, Spanish, German, Italian, English, and Spelling, Vocal Music, Bookkeeping, Stenography and Penmanship. To us this strongly suggests what Russell meant when he said he was educated by “private tutors.”
Ordination among Baptists and other denominations in the mid 19th Century through the 1930s was by congregation election that differed in no respect and required no more theological training than Russell had. When his opposers put pastor in quotes, it meant no more than that they did not recognize his ordination. But the Methodist ministry would not recognize a Lutheran's ordination either.
Russell debated E. L. Eaton in 1903. In the press he was called Dr. Eaton. In fact, though he was ordained a Methodist clergyman he had never graduated from a seminary, attending one briefly. His so called doctorate was an honorary degree. He had no more training than did Russell. There is way too much fakery and not enough history in this discussion.
A major logic flaw is attacking the man when you cannot attack his teaching. Stop it.
In Separate Identity vol 2, uncle B wrote:
In a footnote [Chapter 1; note 3] he [Rogerson] wrote: “The title ‘Pastor’ was purely honorary as far as Russell was concerned, he never graduated from any theological school.” [Comma fault is his.] This is a commonly made claim, and indeed Russell was not educated in any theological school.
In the United States it was common for ordination to be by congregation election. Many ‘Pastors’ especially among Methodists and Baptists were marginally educated, called to preach by licensure and election rather than by graduation from a religious college, some of which met no real academic standard. While this was changing, especially among Methodists, this practice persisted into the 20th Century. Distinguishing between Russell’s election as pastor by Bible Student congregations and a country Baptist’s ordination by the same means is stupid. Someone suggested to us that ‘ordination’ implied a ceremony, and since he knew of no ceremony in Russell’s case he was not ‘ordained’ in any sense. I suggest that formal election as pastor is a ceremony.
In 1913 a survey of Indiana churches done by the Presbyterian Board of Home Missions found that “thirty seven per cent of the ministers have had no more than a common school [i.e.: a seventh grade] education.”49 Liston Pope’s analysis of clergy education in Gastonia County, North Carolina, illustrates my point:
The policy of the Baptist churches has been even less exacting. The denomination has never erected an educational requirement for its ministers, or maintained an informal standard, or insisted on a course of study. In 1869-70 there were only two college graduates in the Baptist Association which included most of the churches in Gaston County. In 1903 few Baptist preachers in the county had even a high school education and college men were almost unknown. The tendency in more recent years has been to give preference to better-educated men, but only 56 per cent of them at present have college degrees and only 18 per cent have completed a seminary course.
The newer sects in the county are led by ministers almost wholly uneducated. Several of them find it necessary to have some more literate person read the Scriptures in their services. Others did not go beyond the fourth or fifth grade in the public schools; none have college degrees. Most of them are on sabbatical leave from jobs in cotton mills. There are no established educational requirements for preachers in the sects with which they are affiliated, though there are trends in that direction. As compared with Presbyterian and Lutheran standards, Methodist demands have been relatively low. The Methodist Episcopal Church, South, did not establish a college degree as a prerequisite to ordination until 1934, and it was possible until 1940 to circumvent this requirement. Less than half of its preachers in Gaston County at present have had seminary training; most of them now have college degrees, but several older men, representative of past standards, have only a high school education or less.
We can add that the Mennonites did not establish a theological seminary until 1912, and with the exception of two men, none of their clergy had graduated from college, and most of them had no more than a “grade school education” which was “about normal.” Criticizing Russell for what was common among several denominations is pure hypocrisy. Bible Students saw Russell as ordained. Prentis Gerdon Gloystein [January 6, 1887 – April 19, 1956], writing to The Twin Falls, Idaho, Times, described Russell as the “duly elected-ordained pastor” of several Bible Student congregations including the largest of these. Gloystein wrote as one “intimately acquainted with Pastor Russell, having lived for a number of years in his home town ... besides being an associate worker with him at his present headquarters in Brooklyn, N. Y.”
This is footnoted to sources in Separate Identity. Read it and learn something. Some months ago a troll who haunts this board questioned Bruce's education. You might note that he is an Fellow of the Royal Historical Society [London] which speaks both to his education and to his standing among other historians.
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Searchlight on Russellism
by vienne ini'm trying to help uncle b with his research.
he is seeking scans of a magazine published between 1915 and maybe 1917 entitled searchlight on russellism.
one issue is at harvard divinity school library.
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vienne
Hi everyone,
I'm trying to help Uncle B with his research. He is seeking scans of a magazine published between 1915 and maybe 1917 entitled Searchlight on Russellism. One issue is at Harvard Divinity School Library. Both of us have tried to get a copy from them without much success. Do any of you have scans or photocopies of this?
Annie