Posts by vienne

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

vienne

Smiles, you write that only because you differ rheologically. An specific example?

68

Where it all went wrong for the WT - JF Rutherford

by LoveUniHateExams in

i was thinking a bit about this the other day.

ct russell, from what i remember about him, kinda seemed like a genuine, nice(ish) guy, although he had a few eccentric but harmless ideas.. during the russell era jws (actually bible students) could still celebrate christmas, worship in other churches if there was no kingdom hall available, and accept blood transfusions.. then after russell died, along came rutherford - a major league a-hole, for sure.. rutherford had plenty of eccentric ideas but at least some of them weren't/aren't harmless.

some have been long forgotten about - jesus depicted without a beard, the plan to rename the names of the week because names such as thursday (thor's day) is pagan, the articles about the 'dangers' of aluminium, etc.. one key contribution of rutherford which does a lot of harm is no blood transfusions, even in life-threatening situations.. another is shunning, something which never occurred under russell, or at least was much milder.. rutherford has a lot to answer for, i reckon ....

vienne

No 1. Is demonstrably false on two levels. First, most of his religious training came from Age-to-Come believers and Methodists. It was considerable. Secondly, most clergy in the era were not university educated. You can find this in Separate Identity.

No 2. Is equally misleading. He was not a salesman in his father's store. He was owner, partner with his father in one store. He was the owner of several stores and businesses including major equipment sales, oil wells and patent holder of a lionotype case. He was an owner/manager. Not a salesman.

No. 3. Is stupid. He was elected pastor of several congregations, first in 1876 in Allegheny. He did not assume the title without having fulfilled the office. Ordination by election was common practice in the era, especially on the frontier and deep south.

No. 4. Russell was very cautious about claiming to be the Faithful Slave. He does seem to have believed it. And one of his associates said that he admitted to it in a private conversation.

No. 5. I've skimmed through the 1916 Convention Report and could not find that. Please cite the page.

No. 6. Complete Fraud? You refer to William T. Ellis' article in The Continent. I see you did not fact check. Ellis claimed that Russell did not, despite a newspaper sermon report saying he had, given a sermon in Hawaii. But Hawaiian newspapers report that he did. Ellis also complained that Russellites ignored the needy and unchurched. This is demonstrably false.

No. 7. The divorce from bed and board - not an absolute divorce - is best considered by reading the transcript. This abbreviated summary is misleading.

No. 8. Demonstrably wrong. What's your proof?

Besmirching someone's character is a substitute for rational argument. It is a major logic flaw, the refuge of those incapable of refuting teaching.

53

HM Queen Elizabeth is dead.

by stan livedeath in

long live the king..

vienne

Citizens of the UK should be happy that they're a constitutional monarchy. If Charles had the power of medieval kings had, the joint kingdoms that make up the UK would descent into silliness and poverty. Unless Charles spent his time fornicating and drunk.

1

King v. J. J. Ross Transcript

by vienne in

many have looked for the complete transcript.

as far as i know, it does not exist, except perhaps in the wt archives.

extracts are here: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2022/09/the-ross-libel-trial-transcript.html.

vienne

Many have looked for the complete transcript. As far as I know, it does not exist, except perhaps in the WT archives. Extracts are here: https://truthhistory.blogspot.com/2022/09/the-ross-libel-trial-transcript.html

The extant extracts make out J. J. Ross to be a liar when it comes to the charge of perjury.

45

Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?

by Sea Breeze in

examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

know ye not your own selves, how that jesus christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

- 2 cor.

vienne

To suggest that Jesus in spread among all faithful, literally dwelling in them by some spirit indwelling is Spiritualism. And it is not the thought behind the original Greek preposition which while its basic meaning is 'in' is more faithfully rendered: (2 Corinthians 13:5 NLT): "Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith."

Alternatives would be "in your midst" "in union with." The NW translators chose "in union." The thought, then, is that Christ is in the body of faithful believers as our faith is in him. [See M. R. Vincent's comment]

Adam Clarke pointed out that the the examination Paul suggests is used of coinage. Coinage would be weighed, its content tested, and the false, the counterfeit, would be revealed. So, commenting on that portion of the verse we examine in this post, Clarke wrote: "If base metal be mixed with the pure you can readily detect it; as as easily may you know that you are in the faith ..."

Christ dwells among true Christians by Holy Spirit, not by dividing himself up in little pieces to somehow inhabit the body of individual Christians. He is "in" faithful Christians by their living and observing the true faith.

-Annie

10

Wife's gone to visit distant relatives.......

by BoogerMan in

......so i thought i'd treat myself; i placed an order with the acme escort agency.. damn it, they only had a fiesta available!.

vienne

It's clever even if not belly-laugh producing. And some of those who read this won't get it. They do not know what a Ford Fiesta is/was. Or a Ford Escort.

33

Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?

by Vanderhoven7 in

atheists believe death is the end of personal existence.

but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?

in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.

vienne

Gman, That's total nonsense. A parable is not an actual event. Even in suffering torment, asking for a single drop of water is improbable.

33

Do you think the Watchtower is right about about eternal punishment of the wicked?

by Vanderhoven7 in

atheists believe death is the end of personal existence.

but for those who believe there is life after death, what do you think is the nature of final punishment?

in other words do you agree with the atheists and the watchtower society or is there eternal ongoing conscious punishment awaiting the wicked.

2

Searchlight on Russellism

by vienne in

i'm trying to help uncle b with his research.

he is seeking scans of a magazine published between 1915 and maybe 1917 entitled searchlight on russellism.

one issue is at harvard divinity school library.

vienne

Thanks for that. Not exactly what I'm seeking but helpful nevertheless.