Posts by vienne

posted

11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened in
1. watchtower
2. scandals
original reddit post (removed).
vienne

I have/had several granduncles. One of them is Uncle B. Yes. He's found a library, actually two libraries.
However, Uncle B isn't the one who abandoned the Witnesses. He is still one and has been since umm about 1952.
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened in
1. watchtower
2. scandals
original reddit post (removed).
vienne

F'Alone, see DerekMoors' post above.
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened in
1. watchtower
2. scandals
original reddit post (removed).
vienne

I have mixed feelings about agony books. I'm not a Witness, never was, but I have relatives who are. None of those I know have left, though a grand uncle I never knew did. [He was by all accounts a very disreputable man, and I understand why family more or less disowned him,] I understand that leaving is difficult because it cuts off valued associations, even family. But I don't know that agony books influence the still adherent.
Another issue for me is truthfulness. Some are obviously omitting key elements. I think that's true of the 'historic' books such as Schnell's. We all like to see ourselves as the hero [or anti-hero] of our own life. So we are automatically selective. One of the "I left" narratives I've read is by Charlotte Jennings. My granduncle knew the Jennings family, and though reluctant to tell me about them in great detail, added enough to alter the narrative. And I understand why she would leave out those personal details. So while I read them, they do not influence my personal theology, and many of them - Lloyd's is an example - are repellant.
Do I want them to go away? No. Writing is a way of 'cleansing' the soul, so to speak. If someone needs to do that, forge ahead! From an academic viewpoint, they must be read with caution, and note that they are 'preaching to the choir.' I reject the notion voiced by some academics, that the narratives of former adherents have little to no value. But I've read enough of them to conclude that often the value is very limited, and there are cases of 'false narrative,' where the writer claims to have been a Witness but in reality was not.
I'm rambling, aren't I? It's a family trait. Uncle B has a collection of Russell and Rutherford era opposition books and booklets. He quotes from them in Separate Identity, both published volumes. [You really should read these books. Lulu.com] No balanced history can ignore opposition narratives So, while I see them as "iffy", I would never suggest to anyone to not read them.
-Annie
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened in
1. watchtower
2. scandals
original reddit post (removed).
vienne

Derek, I agree.
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened in
1. watchtower
2. scandals
original reddit post (removed).
vienne

I want to see how many patrons he loses after November 2nd, when Patreon updates. I hope it's fifty, but realistically it will be 10-12.
This discussion trails off topic, repeats its self and contains some not so brilliant comments, but I think it's extremely valuable. Evans deserves to crash and burn. And those discovering him for the first time need to know "what sort of man" he is.
13
Request!----Atlantis Do You Have The V.D.M. Questionnaire?
by Atlantis in
1. jw
2. friends
atlantis, do you have the v.d.m.

questionnaire?.

hi betty:.
vienne

~~The last download link is blank. Nothing there.~~ Worked on the third try. Alles ist gut.
13
Request!----Atlantis Do You Have The V.D.M. Questionnaire?
by Atlantis in
1. jw
2. friends
atlantis, do you have the v.d.m.

questionnaire?.

hi betty:.
vienne

"I have all that junk, I mean spiritual food, in a folder with the Watchtower's of 1916-1918 and other stuff if you want it."
May I please have this file?
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened in
1. watchtower
2. scandals
original reddit post (removed).
vienne

THIS is what Orthodox Church anti-sect propaganda is worth: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/26/russia-ukraine-live-updates.html
Do not buy into it simply because they oppose Witnesses to. Doing so is a waste of good money and good effort.
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened in
1. watchtower
2. scandals
original reddit post (removed).
vienne

I do not see supporting an Orthodox troll who opposes the Watchtower because he sees it as a threat to Orthodox Churches as worth while. His personal testimonies carry little weight and smack of the usual Russian Orthodox propaganda. No, I will not contribute to a farce.
11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened in
1. watchtower
2. scandals
original reddit post (removed).
vienne

I'm not defending Lloyd boy. I detest him. But "argument" as he uses it falls under this definition:
a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
"there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal"

He is, however, argumentative, self-centered, lacking any sense of civility, in need of a brain transplant and more than a little stupid.