Posts by vienne

27

Disfellowshiping only began in 1952!! Before this Witnesses were immoral!

by Witness 007 in

many witnesses lived together in sin or had many wives before 1952 during the rutherford era, this was frowned apoun but no one was disfellowshiped unless they did something major like critisize rutherford!

then in watch.

may 15 1944 and finally watch 1/3 1952, disfellowshiping was invented.

vienne

Disfellowshipping as a Watch Tower practice extends back to Russell's day, though it has taken differing forms. Into the 1930s matters were handled by a public trial and congregation vote. This changed in the 1940s. Organizational Instructions for the Kingdom Publisher, 1945 edition says:

"If a brother sees a fellow publisher do that which is out of harmony with the Lord's organization and His instructions, he should not gossip among others; but he would do well to go to his brother and in a kind manner call his attention to his shortcomings. If an individual associated with a company persists in wrongdoing and does not act according to the Lord's Word and direction as becoming of Christians, then the representative members of the congregation who are the servants in the company, the mature ones or elders, can decide what shall be done with such person. (Deut. 21:18-21; Matt. 18:15-18) The Scriptural admonition is to have nothing to do with such an individual (Rom. 16:17; Titus 3:10) The elders would so advice the congregation (1 cor. 5:11-13) Later if genuine repentance is shown by the dismissed offender the elders may order that he be received back in their midst. - Prov. 17:10; 2 Cor. 2:6-11 7:8-12; 2 Thess. 3:14, 15."

H. H. Stroup's book should be used with care. It is full of errors and contrived material. See Schulz: Separate Identity, vol, 2 introduction where examples of Stroup's fakery are given.

49

Charles Taze Russell & His Secret Mission To S. California That Killed Him

by West70 in

the last 5 months of charles taze russell's life was quite hectic, and according to reports in the watch tower magazine, russell's health was declining throughout.

in september, 1916, russell went on a convention train tour which lasted nearly the entire month.

this train tour included stops in several southern california locations around the 8th through the 12th.

vienne

Russell died of acute, untreated cystitis. In 1916 cystitis had a much higher mortality rate than today. No antibiotics, of course. Russell persisted with his trip despite warning to stay home, drink lots of water and rest. I suppose he felt obligated to make the trip, or was so enamored with self that he felt the trip necessary.

There is no mystery in this. No conspiracy. Just a bit of self delusion and stupidity.

My grand uncle met McMillan and others back in the day. His side of the family can be found in letters to Zion's Watch Tower. Me? Never a Witness. Just a fascinated onlooker.

27

Governing Body's failed doctrines blamed on Jehovah's gradual revealment

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh9w8zmgli0.

( starts at the 21:00 minute mark ) governing body member jeffrey winder reveals the real reason for the failed doctrines throughout the watchtower's 150 year history.

he claims that the governing body are neither inspired or infallible.. the governing body do not need to apologize for getting doctrines wrong.. the governing body ''do their best with what they have and what they understand at the time.''.

vienne

I agree that learning is a series of steps and plateaus. I get that. And I understand that thoughts and ideas actively pursued become clearer with time. BUT, setting out doctrine that is largely or entirely error should bring an apology.

How does this differ from Lloyd Boy the Fat's refusal to apologize? Some genuine repentance is in order. Isn't it?

5

Belgian court decision

by vienne in

https://bitterwinter.org/the-ghent-saga-ends-belgium-cassation-court-confirms-that-shunning-is-lawful/.

vienne

https://bitterwinter.org/the-ghent-saga-ends-belgium-cassation-court-confirms-that-shunning-is-lawful/

2910

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

vienne

"Maybe “god” will be his excuse to the community for dropping the suit, seeing as he seems to have found a new spiritual focus."

More likely he's just say the court failed in its duty.

2910

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

vienne

I wonder how many of his free patreons subscribe just to watch him crash and burn.

2910

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

vienne

Playing the Victim

Because narcissists are unable to take an honest look at their behaviors or relationships, they have no “governor” in their efforts to manipulate others. When they are unable to manage situations, rather than take responsibility, they will play the victim and look for others to blame for their own mistakes or poor judgments. They use guilt as a tool to get their needs met at the expense of others.

As their worlds shrink along with their influence, narcissists may amp up the lashing out that they do towards others. As their control over others loosens, they may revel in their opportunities to play the victim. Whether it’s with family or paid caregivers, narcissists tend to find reasons to position their own discomfort or poor choices as the failings of others who should have the narcissist’s best interest at heart.

From: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lifetime-connections/202309/how-do-i-manage-narcissistic-parents-as-they-age

2910

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

vienne

Suicidal wishes are not rare in those with narcissistic personality disorder. However, the factors contributing to suicide among narcissistic individuals are not well understood. Paul Links [6] has pointed out that with patients on the narcissistic spectrum, the wish to kill oneself can emerge without the presence of a depressed state. Indeed, suicidal feelings may grow out of a desperate need to regulate self-esteem or protect a pathological self-image of perfection. In addition, an acute narcissistic injury can produce intense shame to the point where suicide seems like the only option. Whereas guilty individuals may feel they are not living up to a standard, shame-prone patients, such as vulnerable narcissists, have the sense of being irreparably defective.

Shame is sometimes defined as a sense of falling short of what one should be. Shame is often at the core of narcissistic individuals, who struggle with an acute sense of having failed in many aspects of their lives. They feel certain that others are thinking badly about them. When “caught” by someone watching them, a sense of painful humiliation may emerge. Seeing and being seen are central to narcissistic patients. They may feel that their secret sense of being “phony” or “fake” is now exposed. Suicide may feel like the only way out, especially after a devastating humiliation.

It is not well recognized, but suicidal behavior is a clinically significant but underestimated cause of mortality in narcissistic personality disorder.

From: Gabbard, G.O. Narcissism and suicide risk. Ann Gen Psychiatry 21, 3 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1186/s12991-022-00380-8

30

Pyramid shaped table

by MissDaSilva in

jw
friends

.

vienne

Russell was NOT buried in the Masonic section of the cemetery. There WAS no masonic section when the Watch Tower purchased the land on which Russell and other Bible Students were buried.

The Pyramid Monument was not inspired by Masonic belief, but by the belief held by many including well-known clergy, that the pyramid held a divine message. As said above Masonic symbols derive from Christianity, not the reverse.

The Masons kept detailed membership lists and published them. Neither Charles nor Joseph appear in the lists. You are attracted to the myth of Russell's Masonic connection because it - in a way never explained - degrades his work. And none of those believing this myth explain why it would be a bad thing if he was a Mason. Do you in your heart of hearts believe in some Masonic conspiracy? Why?

30

Pyramid shaped table

by MissDaSilva in

jw
friends

.

vienne

The table isn't pyramid shaped. It's triangular. ("One of these things is not like the other ...")

Neither Russell nor his father were Masons. They belonged to churches that discourage membership. But suppose they were. Do you believe the Masons are engaged in a world-wide conspiracy? Prove it. Do you believe they represent the Devil, rather than be a rather silly social organization? Prove it.

There are two logic faults within the belief that Russell was a Mason. Can you identify them?