Hi Charles,
I don't know who Springmeier is.
I think what you are saying is that for apostates to believe something untrue of WT history and spreading it is detrimental to us because they can turn around and say how they believe. Is this what you are saying?
Again I never made the claim that he was a Mason, only that looking back there are some things that gave me pause for thought personaly.
I am not out to convince anyone one way or the other. I am on a quest for personal knowlege and it feels like I was attacked by Mad. It kind of pisses me off when I was simply asking a question. Almost like going to the kingdom hall and asking the elders about the UN thing. :-)
What I believe about the masons and all of that crap goes way beyond anything I wish to discuss here.
Posts by NikL
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54The Russell/Mason debate
by NikL ini have noticed there is some debate on this board about russell and whether he was a mason or not.
some say he is a part of a conspiracy others say it is nonesence.. i am, to be quite honest, not sure where i fit in this.
i do find it interesting that russell is buried under a pyramid in the masonic section of a grave yard.
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NikL
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54
The Russell/Mason debate
by NikL ini have noticed there is some debate on this board about russell and whether he was a mason or not.
some say he is a part of a conspiracy others say it is nonesence.. i am, to be quite honest, not sure where i fit in this.
i do find it interesting that russell is buried under a pyramid in the masonic section of a grave yard.
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NikL
Are you refering to me Mad?
I was not trying to say anything about illuminati, only that there appears to be some connection between Russell and the Masons. The preceeding seems to lend some creedence to that though I am having to take the writer at their word so really there is still no proof.
This seems to be a hot issue with you. Why is that? You seem to have an ax to grind over this and get really bothered if someone thinks otherwise. Perhaps you can enlighten us and I again ask you to do so if it wouldn't be too inconvenient. :) -
54
The Russell/Mason debate
by NikL ini have noticed there is some debate on this board about russell and whether he was a mason or not.
some say he is a part of a conspiracy others say it is nonesence.. i am, to be quite honest, not sure where i fit in this.
i do find it interesting that russell is buried under a pyramid in the masonic section of a grave yard.
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NikL
Okay Mad,
I don't have the time unfortunately to go in depth into the reasons that I have the "opinion" that Russell was a Mason. I can't proove a thing. Is that better? Make more sence? I am asking what your reasons are for your "opinion" as to why you think he was not. I really want to know, I don't want to argue or anything I am just curious.
We form our opinions by what we see and our experience in life. What I might view as evidence or proof you may not. What are the things that lead you to your opinion? I am sure you have answered it already here somewhere but I am a hit or miss reader on this board and I miss a lot. -
54
The Russell/Mason debate
by NikL ini have noticed there is some debate on this board about russell and whether he was a mason or not.
some say he is a part of a conspiracy others say it is nonesence.. i am, to be quite honest, not sure where i fit in this.
i do find it interesting that russell is buried under a pyramid in the masonic section of a grave yard.
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NikL
Hi Mad,
Well, any evidence I speak of is obviously not first hand. I have never been to Pitsburgh nor have I seen the grave site. I am relying on accounts from others and in my little world I take everything with a grain of salt anyway. This includes my conclusions. If I come to some understanding and later find it is in error, I have the gift to abandon all of my previous erronious thoughts and go in the direction to which the newly aquired evidence or knowlege points.
If you can give solid prrof that Russell was not
a Mason I would love to see it.
while you ask me for proof which I do not have, you have not provided proof for the viewpoint that you are so strong in putting forth, namely that Russell was not and never was a Mason.
All I can say, it that in my reading of Masonic literature, there seems to be a simularity in many ways in believing that pyramids are somehow able to help break a code for telling the future and prophesy.
Many of the symbols used in early Watchtower publications were Masonic in nature. You may argue this point but our arguments don't matter if neither of us has any definate proof. For whatever reasons you have come to the conclusion that there is no masonic connection. I on the other hand, feel there might be. If someone can give proof that there is no connection then I will gladly take your side on this issue.
Does anybody have it? -
54
The Russell/Mason debate
by NikL ini have noticed there is some debate on this board about russell and whether he was a mason or not.
some say he is a part of a conspiracy others say it is nonesence.. i am, to be quite honest, not sure where i fit in this.
i do find it interesting that russell is buried under a pyramid in the masonic section of a grave yard.
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NikL
I have noticed there is some debate on this board about Russell and whether he was a mason or not. Some say he is a part of a conspiracy others say it is nonesence.
I am, to be quite honest, not sure where I fit in this. I do find it interesting that Russell is buried under a pyramid in the Masonic section of a grave yard. Is this proof? Well, could you get your loved one buried in a masonic cemetary if they weren't a mason? Could you do it in the early part of the 20th century when Masons were more powerful?
I have read some masonic literature from the 1800s (My grandfather was a 33rd degree member)and they mention Jehovah quite often. The whole system for interpreting the prophesies using pyramidology is masonic in nature. I think the evidence points to a masonic connection but I would love to hear evidence or reasoning as to why certain ones believe Russell was NOT a mason. -
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Poetry JW style. Yuk!
by NikL inhere is an example of what passes for thought provoking poetry among the dubs.
(try not to hurl).... of all my years as a witness, the times were not always good.. too many mistakes were being made, the brothers not doing what they should.. as i look back now there are times, i can recall, when i did not even look forward to going to the kingdom hall.. the brothers showed no love.. they didn't seem to care.. the elders were unyielding, demanding and unfair.. meetings were dull and boring; field service was a chore.. there wasn't much of a "pioneer spirit,".
while going from door to door.. it would not get any better, as i hoped it would.. i knew the day was coming when i would leave jehovah's house for good.. but happily, it's so different now, jehovah has been so kind.. he has allowed me a wonderful congregation to find.. the spirit is so strong here.. the brothers really care.. i couldn't be more happy if i were anywhere!.
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NikL
Here is an example of what passes for thought provoking poetry among the dubs. (Try not to hurl)...
Of all my years as a Witness, the times were not always good.
Too many mistakes were being made, the brothers not doing what they should.As I look back now there are times, I can recall, when I did not even look forward to going to the Kingdom Hall.
The brothers showed no love.
They didn't seem to care.
The elders were unyielding, demanding and unfair.Meetings were dull and boring; field service was a chore.
There wasn't much of a "Pioneer spirit,"
while going from door to door.It would not get any better, as I hoped it would.
I knew the day was coming when I would leave Jehovah's house for good.But happily, it's so different now, Jehovah has been so kind.
He has allowed me a wonderful congregation to find.The spirit is so strong here.
The brothers really care.
I couldn't be more happy if I were anywhere!Life in Jehovah's organization is just as I would dream, but don't get me wrong; things are not as they would seem.
You see, I'm part of the same congregation, and I go to the same Hall.
I fellowship with the same brothers and sisters, same elder body and all.No, the changes that were made are not as they seem, for all the changes made were changes in ME.
Now I love the whole brotherhood -- No other in the world to find, Instead of being critical, I try to be loving, forgiving, and kind.
I realize we are all imperfect, it's plain now for me to see.
While I was learning to put up with my brothers, they were putting up with me!We are all part of Jehovah's one flock, and that's where I want to be.
Why, if my brothers are good enough for Jehovah, then they're good enough for me. -
46
Mispronunciations at the meetings
by TR inmoxy raised a point in the "exaggeration" thread that aggravated me at the meetings.
mispronunciations.
moxy mentioned the word 'hyperbole' as frequently being mispronounced.. another one that bugged me was 'epitome'.
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NikL
One that always gets to me, it happened the other night at the service meeting as a matter of fact, the congregation was asked to turn their bibles to Ecclesiastiks. LOL
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The WTS in The Zionist Conspiracy
by FatJackMcCracken inthe watchtower society .
in the zionist conspiracy.
by:-jack mccracken 9.30.01. the watchtower society's membership in the united nations as an ngo since 1991, and advocacy of the un charter, is just the tip of the iceberg.
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NikL
Wow!
You really wrote a book there fat jack. I am not sure how much I think you are right and how much you are wrong but am sure there is a mixture of both here.
I love reading this sort of thing as it gets me thinking and that is a good thing. -
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Watchtower's Secret Agenda
by cyrano init has been recorded in his own material, his admittance to being a freemason.
" i am very glad to have this particular opportunity of saying a word about some of the things in which we agree with our masonic friends, because we are speaking in a building dedicated to masonry, and we also are masons.
i am a freemason.
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NikL
I am somewhat surprised about the tone of some of the responces on this thread. I mean so maybe there is no definate proof about a masonic connection. Someone here speculates about it and all of a sudden they are dealing with "silly nonesence" and "spoiling things for all self respecting apostates".
I don't see how speculating about a masonic connection in Russells past can hurt apostates anymore than speculation on why the WTS does any of the things it does. What gives? Why all the anger? -
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Watchtower's Secret Agenda
by cyrano init has been recorded in his own material, his admittance to being a freemason.
" i am very glad to have this particular opportunity of saying a word about some of the things in which we agree with our masonic friends, because we are speaking in a building dedicated to masonry, and we also are masons.
i am a freemason.
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NikL
While there may not be any proof beyond a shadow of doubt, I too believe there was a possible masonic conection to Russell. There is just too many clues in terminology in cover art etc. Maybe he never acheived a very prominent level or maybe he just used masonic (or simular) literature to formulate some of his ideas. The masons werent the only secret society at the time. As a matter of fact, there were many existing in those years.