NikL

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Posts by NikL

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  14

  Jehovahs Witnesses and Marijuana

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i live in california where pot just became legal for recreational use very similar to alcohol.

  my wife who is a very active jw has had her medical card for cannabis for a couple of years now.

  and i know several in our congregations around our area who are using it medically.

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  NikL

  I live in California where pot just became legal for recreational use very similar to alcohol.
  My wife who is a very active JW has had her medical card for cannabis for a couple of years now. And I know several in our congregations around our area who are using it medically.
  My understanding is that the society says as long as you have a prescription for it it's okay. Well, now a prescription is no longer required (at least in California, Colorado and a few other states) meaning if I want to toke up I guess I can the same as if I decide to take a snort of whiskey.
  As the stigma goes away more and more I can totally see lots of brothers and sisters deciding to give ganja a try.
  Getting high probably would make the meetings and conventions go by much quicker :-)
  Any thoughts on how the corporation is going to do deal with that?
  
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  34

  So the governing body is NOT inspired...are they still "spirit directed"?

  by NikL in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  okay there has been lots of buzz about the feb 2017 wt where they say the governing body is not inspired nor infallible.

  yet, they are still using the baptism questions.

  the second one being... "do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of jehovah’s witnesses in association with god’s spirit-directedorganization?".

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  NikL

  punkofnice 4 hours ago

  This is a get out clause to avoid law suits.

  Unfortunately I tend to agree with you Punk.

  However, I do think this is a really good get out of jail free card for people wanting to leave. Seriously, how could you be brought in for apostasy for disagreeing with some element of doctrine? They are imperfect and make mistakes, and as was painfully brought out in the study yesterday, we are expected to READ the BIBLE and USE our BRAINS.

  I seriously think that if someone wants to fade it's easier than ever. As long as you aren't "apostatizing" in the congregation.

  Of course if friends and family avoid you on their own, there isn't really anything that can be done about that I guess, unless it's to pint them to the study article from the Jan 2017 WT on free will which states in paragraph 15 ...
  

  RESPECTING OTHERS’ GIFT OF FREE WILL

  15 One of the limitations on our freedom is that we must respect the right that others have to make their own decisions in life. Why? Since we all have the gift of free will, no two Christians will always make exactly the same decision. This is true even in matters that involve our conduct and worship. Remember the principle found at Galatians 6:5. (Read.) When we recognize that each Christian must “carry his own load,” we will respect the right that others have to use their own gift of free will.
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  34

  So the governing body is NOT inspired...are they still "spirit directed"?

  by NikL in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  okay there has been lots of buzz about the feb 2017 wt where they say the governing body is not inspired nor infallible.

  yet, they are still using the baptism questions.

  the second one being... "do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of jehovah’s witnesses in association with god’s spirit-directedorganization?".

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  NikL

  Okay there has been lots of buzz about the Feb 2017 WT where they say the governing body is NOT inspired NOR infallible.

  Yet, they are still using the baptism questions. The second one being... "Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed
  organization?"

  It kind of seems like the same thing to me.

  Inspiration is defined as the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, especially to do something creative.

  Wouldn't the holy spirit directing things as in "spirit directed" be inspiration?
  
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  10

  I think Watchtower online library filters results it does not like.

  by NikL in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was trying to find that scripture that talks about recognizing a false prophet.

  in the watchtower online website, i did a search for the words false prophet and filtered it for scriptures only from the bible which brought up zilch in the way of results.

  i did a google advanced search for the same thing and it brought up the scripture i needed which happens to be deuteronomy chapter 18:20-22 which reads... 20 “‘if any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that i did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.+ 21 however, you may say in your heart: “how will we know that jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then jehovah did not speak that word.

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  NikL

  Yeah I guess that WAS stupid of me darkspilver. Thanks for being polite and just calling me "silly".
  

  I should have figured that out for myself.
  

  Seriously, if Google is so much more intuitive than their own search it's still the way to go.

  Weird thing though, I just did the same search again and got totally different results.
  
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  5

  Interfaith marriage

  by TheWonderofYou in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  5.mos “if you go to war against your enemies and jehovah your god defeats them for you and you take them captive,+ 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman and you are attracted to her and you want to take her as your wife, 12 you may bring her into your house.

  she should then shave her head, attend to her nails, 13 and remove the clothing of her captivity, and dwell in your house.

  she will weep for her father and her mother a whole month,+ and afterward you may have relations with her; you will become her husband and she will become your wife.

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  NikL

  Wow Blondie,

  I just looked at those verses. Funny to see them next to each other as they seem a total contradiction.

  Wonder what would happen if I mentioned that at the next witness get together I go to? :-)
  
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  10

  I think Watchtower online library filters results it does not like.

  by NikL in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was trying to find that scripture that talks about recognizing a false prophet.

  in the watchtower online website, i did a search for the words false prophet and filtered it for scriptures only from the bible which brought up zilch in the way of results.

  i did a google advanced search for the same thing and it brought up the scripture i needed which happens to be deuteronomy chapter 18:20-22 which reads... 20 “‘if any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that i did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.+ 21 however, you may say in your heart: “how will we know that jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then jehovah did not speak that word.

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  NikL

  I was trying to find that scripture that talks about recognizing a false prophet.
  In the Watchtower online website, I did a search for the words false prophet and filtered it for scriptures only from the Bible which brought up zilch in the way of results.
  I did a Google advanced search for the same thing and it brought up the scripture I needed which happens to be Deuteronomy chapter 18:20-22 which reads...
  20 “‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods,
  that prophet must die.+
  21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?”
  22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word.
  The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’
  
  I guess my point being that they do post all kinds of incriminating things on their website but they don't make it very easy for you to find.
  From now on Google is going to be my go-to to search their website.
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  29

  How about prayers being used as a talk?

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  another thread on here made me think of it.. its a personal peeve of mine.. you bow your head in prayer and the brother says thinks like thank you for the lessons we learned today like bla bla bla and for that wonderful point about yadda yadda yadda.

  jehovah we know that etc etc etc therefore we must...well you get the gist.and on and on it goes.

  absolutely drives me mad..

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  NikL

  Love the comments.

  I'll be thinking of them and sniggering this Sunday no doubt.
• 
  29

  How about prayers being used as a talk?

  by NikL in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  another thread on here made me think of it.. its a personal peeve of mine.. you bow your head in prayer and the brother says thinks like thank you for the lessons we learned today like bla bla bla and for that wonderful point about yadda yadda yadda.

  jehovah we know that etc etc etc therefore we must...well you get the gist.and on and on it goes.

  absolutely drives me mad..

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  NikL

  Another thread on here made me think of it.

  Its a personal peeve of mine.

  You bow your head in prayer and the brother says thinks like thank you for the lessons we learned today like bla bla bla and for that wonderful point about yadda yadda yadda. Jehovah we know that etc etc etc therefore we must...
  Well you get the gist.
  And on and on it goes

  Absolutely drives me mad.
  
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  7

  Here's what the Masons have to say about Jehovah

  by NikL in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my grandfather was a 32nd degree mason.. my parents ended up with one of his books called "morals and dogma" published by the masons.. i remember looking through it years ago and seeing multiple mentions of jehovah.. as it turns out, it's in the public domain on project gutenberg and is there fore searchable.. found this interesting in light of chuck russell's alleged mason connection.. it says about jehovah and the divine name.... whether the legend and history of this degree are historically true, or but an allegory, containing in itself a deeper truth and a profounder meaning, we shall not now debate.

  if it be but a legendary myth, you must find out for yourself what it means.

  it is certain that the word which the hebrews are not now permitted to pronounce was in common use by abraham, lot, isaac, jacob, laban, rebecca, and even among tribes foreign to the hebrews, before the time of moses; and that it recurs a hundred times in the lyrical effusions of david and other hebrew poets..

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  NikL

  My grandfather was a 32nd degree Mason.

  My parents ended up with one of his books called "Morals and dogma" published by the Masons.

  I remember looking through it years ago and seeing multiple mentions of Jehovah.

  As it turns out, it's in the public domain on project Gutenberg and is there fore searchable.

  Found this interesting in light of Chuck Russell's alleged Mason connection.

  It says about Jehovah and the divine name...

  Whether the legend and history of this Degree are historically true, or but an allegory, containing in itself a deeper truth and a profounder meaning, we shall not now debate. If it be but a legendary myth, you must find out for yourself what it means. It is certain that the word which the Hebrews are not now permitted to pronounce was in common use by Abraham, Lot, Isaac, Jacob, Laban, Rebecca, and even among tribes foreign to the Hebrews, before the time of Moses; and that it recurs a hundred times in the lyrical effusions of David and other Hebrew poets.

  We know that for many centuries the Hebrews have been forbidden to pronounce the Sacred Name; that wherever it occurs, they have for ages read the word Adonaï instead; and that under it, when the masoretic points, which represent the vowels, came to be used, they placed those which belonged to the latter word. The possession of the true pronunciation was deemed to confer on him who had it extraordinary and supernatural powers; and the Word itself, worn upon the person, was regarded as an amulet, a protection against personal danger, sickness, and evil spirits. We know that all this was a vain superstition, natural to a rude people, necessarily disappearing as the intellect of man became enlightened; and wholly unworthy of a Mason.

  It is noticeable that this notion of the sanctity of the Divine Name or Creative Word was common to all the ancient nations. The Sacred Word HOM was supposed by the ancient Persians (who were among the earliest emigrants from Northern India) to be pregnant with a mysterious power; and they taught that by its utterance the world was created. In India it was forbidden to pronounce the word AUM or OM, the Sacred Name of the One Deity, manifested as Brahma, Vishna, and Seeva.

  These superstitious notions in regard to the efficacy of the Word, and the prohibition against pronouncing it, could, being errors, have formed no part of the pure primitive religion, or of the esoteric doctrine taught by Moses, and the full knowledge of which was confined to the Initiates; unless the whole was but an ingenious invention for the concealment of some other Name or truth, the interpretation and meaning whereof was made known only to the select few. If so, the common notions in regard to the Word grew up in the minds of the people, like other errors and fables among all the ancient nations, out of original truths and symbols and allegories misunderstood. So it has always been that allegories, intended as vehicles of truth, to be understood by the sages, have become or bred errors, by being literally accepted.

  It is true, that before the masoretic points were invented (which was after the beginning of the Christian era), the pronunciation of a word in the Hebrew language could not be known from the characters in which it was written. It was, therefore, possible for that of the name of the Deity to have been forgotten and lost. It is certain that its true pronunciation is not that represented by the word Jehovah; and therefore that that is not the true name of Deity, nor the Ineffable Word.

  The ancient symbols and allegories always had more than one interpretation. They always had a double meaning, and sometimes more than two, one serving as the envelope of the other. Thus the pronunciation of the word was a symbol; and that pronunciation and the word itself were lost, when the knowledge of the true nature and attributes of God faded out of the minds of the Jewish people. That is one interpretation—true, but not the inner and profoundest one.

  Men were figuratively said to forget the name of God, when they lost that knowledge, and worshipped the heathen deities, and burned incense to them on the high places, and passed their children through the fire to Moloch.

  Thus the attempts of the ancient Israelites and of the Initiates to ascertain the True Name of the Deity, and its pronunciation, and the loss of the True Word, are an allegory, in which are represented the general ignorance of the true nature and attributes of God, the proneness of the people of Judah and Israel to worship other deities, and the low and erroneous and dishonoring notions of the Grand Architect of the Universe, which all shared except a few favored persons; for even Solomon built altars and sacrificed to Astarat, the goddess of the Tsidunim, and Malcūm, the Aamūnite god, and built high places for Kamūs, the Moabite deity, and Malec the god of the Beni-Aamūn. The true nature of God was unknown to them, like His name; and they worshipped the calves of Jeroboam, as in the desert they did that made for them by Aarūn.

  The mass of the Hebrews did not believe in the existence of one only God until a late period in their history. Their early and popular ideas of the Deity were singularly low and unworthy. Even while Moses was receiving the law upon Mount Sinai, they forced Aarūn to make them an image of the Egyptian god Apis, and fell down and adored it. They were ever ready to return to the worship of the gods of the Mitzraim; and soon after the death of Joshua they became devout worshippers of the false gods of all the surrounding nations. "Ye have borne," Amos, the prophet, said to them, speaking of their forty years' journeying in the desert, under Moses, "the tabernacle of your Malec and Kaiūn your idols, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves".

  Among them, as among other nations, the conceptions of God formed by individuals varied according to their intellectual and spiritual capacities; poor and imperfect, and investing God with the commonest and coarsest attributes of humanity, among the ignorant and coarse; pure and lofty among the virtuous and richly gifted. These conceptions gradually improved and became purified and ennobled, as the nation advanced in civilization—being lowest in the historical books, amended in the prophetic writings, and reaching their highest elevation among the poets.

  Among all the ancient nations there was one faith and one idea of Deity for the enlightened, intelligent, and educated, and another for the common people. To this rule the Hebrews were no exception. Yehovah, to the mass of the people, was like the gods of the nations around them, except that he was the peculiar God, first of the family of Abraham, of that of Isaac, and of that of Jacob, and afterward the National God; and, as they believed, more powerful than the other gods of the same nature worshipped by their neighbors—"Who among the Baalim is like unto thee, O Yehovah?"—expressed their whole creed.

  The Deity of the early Hebrews talked to Adam and Eve in the garden of delight, as he walked in it in the cool of the day; he conversed with Kayin; he sat and ate with Abraham in his tent; that patriarch required a visible token, before he would believe in his positive promise; he permitted Abraham to expostulate with him, and to induce him to change his first determination in regard to Sodom; he wrestled with Jacob; he showed Moses his person, though not his face; he dictated the minutest police regulations and the dimensions of the tabernacle and its furniture, to the Israelites; he insisted on and delighted in sacrifices and burnt-offerings; he was angry, jealous, and revengeful, as well as wavering and irresolute; he allowed Moses to reason him out of his fixed resolution utterly to destroy his people; he commanded the performance of the most shocking and hideous acts of cruelty and barbarity. He hardened the heart of Pharaoh; he repented of the evil that he had said he would do unto the people of Nineveh; and he did it not, to the disgust and anger of Jonah.

  Such were the popular notions of the Deity; and either the priests had none better, or took little trouble to correct these notions; or the popular intellect was not enough enlarged to enable them to entertain any higher conceptions of the Almighty.

  But such were not the ideas of the intellectual and enlightened few among the Hebrews, It is certain that they possessed a knowledge of the true nature and attributes of God; as the same class of men did among the other nations—Zoroaster, Menu, Confucius, Socrates, and Plato. But their doctrines on this subject were esoteric; they did not communicate them to the people at large, but only to a favored few; and as they were communicated in Egypt and India, in Persia and Phœnicia, in Greece and Samothrace, in the greater mysteries, to the Initiates.

  The communication of this knowledge and other secrets, some of which are perhaps lost, constituted, under other names, what we now call Masonry, or Free or Frank-Masonry. That knowledge was, in one sense, the Lost Word, which was made known to the Grand Elect, Perfect, and Sublime Masons. It would be folly to pretend that the forms of Masonry were the same in those ages as they are now. The present name of the Order, and its titles, and the names of the Degrees now in use, were not then known. Even Blue Masonry cannot trace back its authentic history, with its present Degrees, further than the year 1700, if so far. But, by whatever name it was known in this or the other country, Masonry existed as it now exists, the same in spirit and at heart, not only when Solomon builded the temple, but centuries before—before even the first colonies emigrated into Southern India, Persia, and Egypt, from the cradle of the human race.
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  5

  Studies in the scriptures AND bunch of Rutherford books available online

  by NikL in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this may be well known here but i just discovered it.. lots of old publications are in the public domain and are available for download.

  could be a great source of information for those that need it.. here are couple links.... https://archive.org/details/studiesinthescripturesvolumes1-7.

  https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3a%22j.f.%20rutherford%22.

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  NikL

  That's great! I hadn't noticed that.

  So now it's easier than ever to research virtually anything the society or folks like Ray Franz has said over the years.

  Awesome.