A debate on the topic starting with the Annals of the World:
http://www.evolutionfairytale.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3679
ShadesofGrey
JoinedPosts by ShadesofGrey
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ShadesofGrey
Am I a Bible literalist? Yes. Taking God at his word rescued me from a cult and changed my life. I don't intend to change something that is working for me.
As far as whether Bible chronology back to Adam is only 6,000 years I am not so sure. It seems strange that the chronological records follow a pattern, and I see no reason why some generations would not have been left out.
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ShadesofGrey
Here is another good link concerning the OP: http://6000years.org/frame.php?page=noahs_grandsons Look at the Old Earth Why Not? Quotes.
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ShadesofGrey
The first solar eclipse ever recorded happened in 2134 B.C. in China, so it appears the “legendary period” in China is not as long as popularly imagined.
There are kings list of ancient Sumer for before and after the flood and they match up to the Biblical account of the patriarchs.
The ancient Babylonians are said to have begun building their impressive structures about 3000 B.C. However, a king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, (who ruled about 500 B.C.) wrote on a plaque that was discovered at the ruins of an ancient tower, that he (Nebuchadnezzar) had refurbished this tower which originally was nearly completed by the first king of Babylon, but could not be completed because the builders could no longer understand one another’s spoken words. Nebuchadnezzar further inscripted on the plaque (about 500 BC) that this first king ruled 42 generations before. Here an ancient king of Babylon stated that Babylon began about 2200 B.C.!
Astronomical records, obtained by Alexander the Great from the Babylonians, are dated back 1903 years from 331 B.C. The Babylonians told Alexander that Babylon began when the astronomical records began, in 2234 B.C.
When the Saxons began to migrate to Britain from the European mainland about 500 A.D., the native Britains (Welsh) noted the barbarous, pagan savagery of their new neighbors. The Saxons practiced ancestor worship (of Odin and Geat), and had no knowledge of the Bible. The Welsh (which ironically means “barbaric foreigner” in Saxon13) had been evangelized about 300 years before, so the cold-blooded, pagan lifestyle of the Saxons was appalling to the Welsh.
These “savages” brought with them records of their kings going back to their first king, Noah. These, obviously Biblically ignorant Saxons, compiled their king’s list through the centuries, with the Biblical Noah appearing as their first king. There are many kings list in Europe that were written before any conversion to Christianity that start with Noah or Adam. -
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ShadesofGrey
Thank you Lars.
OP if you do a google search for isaac newton egypt's timeline then you may find more information.
Ancient history is my thing. The Egyptian historian, Manetho, who lived around 300 B.C., compiled a list of Egyptian kings that is the cornerstone of mainstream ancient Egyptian chronological studies. Sir Isaac Newton noted that Manetho reported the same reigns twice under different names, listed kings in the wrong order, corrupted their names, repeated them again and again, and included the names of other great men and women who were only the relations of kings or their viceroys or secretaries of state. Egypt's timeline is an index fossil of sorts. They based the rest of Middle Eastern and Mediterranean history on Egypt's timeline, so it wouldn't be simple to correct it at all. Textbooks and encyclopedias would need to be rewritten, etc. etc. The main problem with the Bible and Egyptian history is that Egyptian history has an incorrect timeline applied to it (as believed by Sir Isaac Newton among others). Once that is corrected then archaeological findings fall into place. The Israelites of the battlefield are depicted on the Karnak wall in the same multicolored garments as are the Canaanites of the three embattled cities. See: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/04/sc...pagewanted=all for more information about archaeological evidence of the Israelites in Egypt and their relation to the Canaanites, who were later called Phoenicians.
One of the histories based on this erroneous Egyptian timeline is that of Ancient Greece. The Greek dark ages supposedly occur during this time. Greek civilization disappears only to reappear centuries later, the pottery and language unchanged, with the history of the Trojan war being written down for the first time supposedly 400 years after the war occurred. It all seems a little fishy to me.Referring to dating methods in Cambridge Encyclopedia of Archeology p.424: "systematic discrepencies between dates that were being obtained and those that could be expected from historical evidence. These differences were most marked in the period before about the mid-first millenium BC... Dates for the earliest comparative material available... appear to be as much as 600 years, or about 12 percent too young."
If this 600 years is removed from Egyptian history (which is used to date all ancient civilizations surrounding the area, such as the Greek dark ages that are actually non-existant), archeological evidence matches up with the history of Israel according to the Bible. This is just one example of many in which secular science and history conceals (perhaps unknowingly) evidence that backs up the Biblical record.
Pharaoh Merneptah of the 19th dynasty wrote on his stele, "Israel is desolate, his seed is no more." This statement makes no sense if he was ruling in the 13th century BCE, as traditional history states. If he ruled in the 8th century BCE then his statment lines up with the conquest of Samaria by the Assyrians and the exile of the 10 tirbes of Israel in 722 BCE.
So the dates logically, should be reduced. There is no reason that dynasties 20 to 23 could not be contemporary with 19 and 24.
Radiocarbon dating should not have been manipulated to agree with the already presumed Egyptian history. Egyptian history should have been shortened to agree with the radiocarbon dating. This would result in Biblical history being vindicated instead of disproved.In 1890 Sir Flinders Petrie identified the pyramid of Amenemhet III, which was made of mud bricks mixed with straw. Sounds familiar (Exodus 5:7)
In the city of Kahun where the pyramid builders lived, he found evidence of many Semitic slaves. "It is apparent that the Asiatics were present in the town in some numbers, and this may have reflected the situation elsewhere in Egypt... There exact homeland in Syria or Palestine cannot be determined... The reason for their presence in Egypt remains unclear."
"It is apparent that the completion of the king's pyramid was not the reason why Kahun's inhabitants eventually deserted the town, abandoning their toolds and other possessions in the shops and houses."
"There are different opinions of how this first period of occupation at Kahun drew to a close... The quantity, range, and type of articles of everyday use which were left behind in the houses may indeed suggest that the departure was sudden and unpremeditated."
Quotes from Dr. Rosalie David, The Pyramid Builders of Ancient EgyptThe term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in southwestern Asia,
Large numbers of slaves that were building a pyramid that included straw made bricks suddenly left. Yeah, no evidence of the Exodus at all.
Why do these archeologists and historians not find evidence of the Israelites in Egypt? Because they are looking in the wrong time. -
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Elder father sent me an email about Feb 2012 WT - my resposne
by TheStumbler ini'm not sure if any of you will remember but i posted on here six months ago about a correspondence i was having with my dad, an elder, about who would die in armageddon.
i was asking some tough questions about children being killed in armageddon and i could tell he uncomfortable with the answers he was giving.. i drafted an email in resposne to his email but in the end i decided not to send it in the interest of maintaining friendly relations.. .
last week, out of the blue, my dad sent an email link to the february 2012 watchtower article about armageddon and said it would answer some of my questions.. here is my response which is a critique of the feb 2012 wt article and some of the broader ethics concerning 'armageddon'.
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ShadesofGrey
Do they believe that they are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Millions that have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before the "great tribulation," and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.— Matthew 7:1-5 ; 24:21 ; 25:31 .
From:
Jehovah's Witnesses — Who Are They? What Do They Believe?
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Do JWs have a biblically normative relationship with Jesus christ?
by Vanderhoven7 ini would say that that would be impossible...given that jesus christ is simply an angelic being in wts eyes.. jehovah's witnesses have about as much a relationship with the angel gabriel as they do with jesus.. and, no...tacking on the name of jesus at the end of a prayer is not evidence of relationship..
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ShadesofGrey
No that is not ok.
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Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible
by flamegrilled inperhaps this is a common topic for newbies on the site, but i have browsed for a while and not seen this exactly answered.. as an active jw who understands the flaws in wts doctrine, but believes in the bible, how do i identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:.
1) by this all will know you are my disciples if you have love among yourselves (john 13:35).
sure i know that not all jws do this, and that people from other religions or non-religious people do this also, but as an official doctrine jws will not kill one another in war, and in general there is a genuine effort to exercise "agape" love not widely found in the world at large.. 2) preach the good news.
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ShadesofGrey
Why is it that there are some people who have tried but can't believe?
I think the reason is that they have caused someone else to wander away from believing.
Something to think about, definitely.
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ShadesofGrey
That is incorrect. There are many possible explanations for the typically accepted science and the typically accepted Bible timeline to be at odds.
When do you believe Adam was created?
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Do JWs have a biblically normative relationship with Jesus christ?
by Vanderhoven7 ini would say that that would be impossible...given that jesus christ is simply an angelic being in wts eyes.. jehovah's witnesses have about as much a relationship with the angel gabriel as they do with jesus.. and, no...tacking on the name of jesus at the end of a prayer is not evidence of relationship..
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ShadesofGrey
Silly designs. I don't need to ask a Rabbi. I only need to ask God. Jeremiah 33:3; Isaiah 44:3; 55:6; 1 Kings 3:9
Psalm 51:6 Proverbs 2:6 Proverbs 3:6 Proverbs 8:17 Daniel 2:21