when i moved my family after leaving the jehoagies schmitnesses, i changed my phone number, and made sure it was unlisted.
little did i know that i would soon be receiving a call out of the blue from a jw.. now, this was a woman that i had worked with at one time and we were pretty good friends, so a few years later, when she called, i was kind of glad to hear from her.
the problem was, how did she get my phone number.
Hi TR,
This is typical arrogant behavior for JW's. After all they will soon be the only ones around when their "loving God" has exterminated the rest of humankind and as they belong to the elite who has presumably made it into Gods, not to exterminate list, they feel they have the right to do what they want.
A JW who works as a nurse with access to patient files have more or less been ordered by the WT to turn in Witnesses with VD and JW women having abortions to the elders.
Norm
perhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former witness about the watchtower society is, thirty years a watch tower slave by william j. schnell, baker book house, grand rapids, mi, 1956. its been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book.
schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954. .
in part, the foreword reads: by the lords grace i am a christian.
Hi Java,
I have also recently read this book and it confirms my thoughts that Rutherford was provoking many of the "persecution" issues in the US and elswhere. While a Witness Schnell also knew how to suck up to "Da Judge" by making servile butt kissing drivel like this one from the WT:
A CONTINUED TESTIMONY OF DIVINE APPROVALDear Brother Rutherford:
Having a part in this wondrous witness work has filled my heart with joy and gladness.
From my childhood days (I was fourteen when I started witnessing) until now, I’ve experienced a guiding hand, leading me to better usefulness, equipping me with better tools and teaching me to use them effectively to the praise and honor of our Father’s name. Through all these years I’ve come to the realization of a great truth: that by constant devotion to his service, in his witness work, we learn to love our Father above everything else and to appreciate the great truths which he gives us through The Watchtower, which truths again lead us to increased devotion and usefulness.
I cannot help but notice that we are privileged with more light in one issue of The Watchtower now than we were in one whole year fifteen years ago. Such is real cause for joy; for we know that only those can follow the light who have made use of previous instructions. It shows our Father’s approval of our course of action. For that reason I am always eagerly awaiting the next issue, as an appreciation and understanding of each Tower is a continued testimony to me that I have still the approval of my Father; for it simply drives me on with more pep.
This work is the Lord’s work, and all honor is due to him. I feel so elated with it, and particularly because of its increased effectiveness. During the past year I’ve had marvelous experiences with one branch of it, namely, the radio work. Your radio efforts are greatly blessed by the Lord. It’s a grand remover of lies and errors.
One lady was so sorry she had been harsh to one of the JW’s a year ago that she cried. She said that your lectures had opened her eyes to what we’re doing, and I placed ten volumes with her, and was fed and treated like a king.
The station in Athens, Ga., is doing great work. Due to your broadcasts there, we placed over a hundred volumes in four days in the business section. The books were taken because they liked the lectures. Your lectures reach people we couldn’t get at before. I worked in an exclusive section in Anderson, S. C., one Sunday morning. I placed many books with the people, and heard your voice in about twelve homes while working. Needless to say, I didn’t have to say much to place books.
I’ve had many more such experiences, but this letter is getting too long. Just wanted to tell you why I am so happy, and I do know that you’ll be glad, too, to know. May the Lord continue to bless you, my dear brother, for you certainly have been a lot of encouragement to me.
Yours for kingdom service,
William J. Schnell, Pioneer
Of course when Schnell "found Jesus" he found another butt to kiss.
Norm.
perhaps the first widely distributed book written by a former witness about the watchtower society is, thirty years a watch tower slave by william j. schnell, baker book house, grand rapids, mi, 1956. its been out of print for several years, and very few libraries still have the book.
schnell was born in 1905, and was part of the watchtower movement from 1921 to 1954. .
in part, the foreword reads: by the lords grace i am a christian.
See below
just a friendly reminder, that on any given day, merely one large mega-ton nuclear device exploded high in the atmosphere over the united states, could fry virtually every "unhardened" electrical device in the entire nation.
numerous prophecies speak about the fall of the oddly yoked anglo-american dyad.
the only thing at this point that remains unclear is exactly when the downfall will occur and how it will come about.
Are you a rebel without a cause?
YK, is more like a rebel without a clue.
Norm
after being on this site for about a month now,i have read many if not all "bashing" j/ws for obvious reasons.i am starting to come to the conclusion that this religion i was raised in is just another religion.but to bring a "thread" of objectivity,i was wonder what you all thought of of the religous freedom j/ws have fought for.i'm reading a book now called 'judging jehovahs witnesses'.some quotes:.
"i think the jehovahs witnesses ought to have an endowment in view of the aid which they give in solving the legel problems of civil liberties"--harlan fiske stone,u.s.
supreme court.
The Watchtower Society and the average Jehovah's Witnesses haven’t got a clue about what freedom is. The January 8. 1999, issue of the Awake! Magazine discusses this theme. Looking through it (the Norwegian issue) it really amazes me that the average Jehovah's Witness can actually read this and not notice the glaring inconstancy. On page 3 there is a big quote of article 18 in the Declaration of Human Rights:
“Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.”
Already by reading this, their alarm clocks should go off. I mean, what happens if a Jehovah's Witness try to exercise his/hers alleged “freedom” to join some other church? Of course we all know the answer to that question. The article makes some remarks about Israel, where someone has suggested a law that ban writings that encourage people to change their religion.
The magazine, very correctly state that such a law would be extremely easy to misuse. Very true, but again, what’s the Watchtower Society own attitude towards Jehovah's Witnesses who change religion? Why is it that the Watchtower Society wants exclusive rights in this matter? Everyone should be granted the “right” to convert to be a Jehovah's Witness, but from that day, the right to convert again is gone forever? What kind of reasoning is that?
The rest of the articles are a long lamentation about “intolerance” scattered with snide remarks about France. The article does of course not bother to mention that France has not lifted a finger to interfere with their religious activities. It is also quite amusing to notice how heavily the Awake rely on “The Beast”. The article is simply festered with quotes from various UN publications. Brooklyn is forever appealing to various nations and groups to respect the rules of “The Beast”. The Watchtower Society is really relying on the protection provided by “The Beast”. On page 11 there is a very interesting subsection, under the heading: “The best way to fight intolerance”. Among other things it says that tolerance includes disagreement, and that people can of course be convinced that another persons religious beliefs are totally wrong, but as long as such viewpoints are presented correctly, they can’t be said to be intolerant. It is only when people spread lies about other religions that it can be called intolerance. The article also very correctly point out that the ultimate expression of intolerance is when people get killed because of their faith.
Again it is amazing that people who belong to an organization who in no uncertain terms declare all religions but their own, false, and preach violent slaughter of 6 billion non Witnesses “any day now”, apparently do not consider themselves intolerant! Killing 99,9% of mankind only because they don’t “accept” Brooklyn’s insane calculations about 1914, seem to be a fully legitimate reason for wiping them out. What an illuminating example of the ultimate intolerance?
But on page 13, it really takes off, as the Awake! starts to talk about, “Rights without obligations”. Wow, if that isn’t interesting, then I don’t know what is. Does it really mean that Brooklyn might one day understand that human rights isn’t just something they demand for their two bit Watchtower organization, but that they should also actually grant these rights to the average Jehovah's Witness as well? Naah, of course not, that would be too much.
Norm.
in the bizarre world that exist within the watchtower society headquarters in brooklyn you can find all kinds of strange statements.
particularly funny is the use of the expressions indisputable/physical facts.
according to the watchtower from 1922, indisputable facts showed that jesus second presence began in 1874!
Hey guys,
I see you all have noticed much of the same cliches as I have. It is quite funny how many of those that whizz around in the WT world. Many other Churches also has such a loaded cliche language, always a sign of little or no thinking activity. One of Freddies absolute gems from the first half of the seventies was the word "fitting". It would be so incredibly "fitting" if Jehovah would time Armageddon in 1975.
As we all know "Jehovah" didn't jump when Fred told him to, and Fred didn't bother to "adjust" anything this time. He let us silently forget about how "fitting" it was that it was 6000 years since Adam was created in 1975. What a dork.
Norm.
in the bizarre world that exist within the watchtower society headquarters in brooklyn you can find all kinds of strange statements.
particularly funny is the use of the expressions indisputable/physical facts.
according to the watchtower from 1922, indisputable facts showed that jesus second presence began in 1874!
In the bizarre world that exist within the Watchtower Society headquarters in Brooklyn you can find all kinds of strange statements. Particularly funny is the use of the expressions “indisputable/physical facts.” These are the words the writing department uses when they have absolutely zero arguments for something. Let us look at some of these masterpieces from Brooklyn.
*** w50 7/1 204 Steps Toward Life ***
In the Bible are the indisputable facts that prove that death is the result of sin,which comes upon all men by inheritance; that to Jehovah God belongs salvation; that the greatest crisis of all time is at hand, when the wicked will be destroyed at Armageddon and when those who seek righteousness and meekness may be spared in that great disaster; that salvation from death, and life forever in happiness, are open to the obedient ones; and that therefore a great emergency now confronts those who shall form the “great multitude”.
As we can see from the above quote Brooklyn, like their fundamentalist “brothers” have absolutely no clue what an indisputable fact or proof is. To claim that the Bible contain “indisputable facts” about anything is an extremely silly claim to make. Yet this is the order of the day in the Watchtower magazine. Like most other religious, who deal in superstition and the unseen, everything seems to come true because someone claim it is. It also seems to help a whole lot if it is several thousand years since it allegedly happened. That seems to be the only criteria for truth or facts in these societies. Take a look at this example from the Watchtower:
*** w94 2/15 16 "Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?" ***
Jehovah’s Witnesses are pleased to provide proof of this, showing how the physical factsof our day fulfill Bible prophecy.
In reality Jehovah's Witnesses during the 100 + years they have existed have to this day never presented any such “proof” at all. It is just a load of hot air. Take a look at these examples:
*** w94 3/15 25 He Realized His Heart's Desire ***
The Christian Greek Scriptures and physical factshave since borne out that the Messiah, Jesus Christ, is the true light of the nations, the One to remove the veil of spiritual darkness and bring salvation to the people.*** w83 2/1 31 The "Kingdom Unity" District Conventions ***
In fact this unity was foretold at Isaiah 52:8, in these words: “Listen! Your own watchmen have raised their voice. In unison they keep crying out joyfully; for it will be eye into eye that they will see when Jehovah gathers back Zion.” The physical factsshow that the gathering back of Zion began in 1919.*** w81 3/15 18 Women-May They Be "Ministers"? ***
This prophecy had its initial fulfillment when the Jewish exiles, as a composite or national group, returned from ancient Babylon. However, as can be seen from the physical factsand in keeping with Romans 15:4 these words are having a modern fulfillment upon spiritual Israelites. (Gal. 6:16) They were in spiritual captivity to “Babylon the Great” during World War I, and were set free shortly thereafter, with the symbolic fall of that world empire of false religion.
Not surprisingly the Watchtower produced make believe and fantasy “facts” that show almost anything, some times these “facts” show that the same thing happened at two different dates, and that both dates are “indisputable”. An example of this is Jesus “second presence” and his “enthronement”:
"The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." The Watchtower, March 1, 1922.
According to the Watchtower from 1922, “indisputable facts” showed that Jesus “second presence” began in 1874! In 1951 and 1954, “physical facts” showed that his “second presence” began i 1914!. Incredible how such iron clad “facts” can change in the Watchtower, isn’t it?
*** w51 6/15 383 Questions from Readers ***
That this method of calculating is correctly used to bring us to A.D. 1914 from 607 B.C. is confirmed for us by the physical factsthat have become manifest from that year 1914 on, in fulfillment of Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, Luke 21, and other prophecies concerning Christ’s second presence, in the time of the end.*** w54 7/1 407 Today's Right Kind of Ministers ***
7 Both the Scriptures and physical factsshow that Christ Jesus was enthroned in Jehovah’s kingdom in 1914.
What can we learn from such examples? First of all that the Watchtower writers have absolutely no idea what a fact is, they think it is whatever they for the moment choose to call a “fact”. As demonstrated a Watchtower “fact” doesn’t qualify as such in the real world. Real “physical” or “indisputable” facts can’t have Jesus “second presence” in 1874 and then suddenly change it to 1914. At least one of those statements doesn’t qualify as a fact. In this case of course none of them even remotely qualify as a fact, because they are impossible to verify in any way, and therefore the word fact shouldn’t be used at all. But this is the way people who live in the foggy and fuzzy realm of fantasy and superstition operates. As many of us who are out of the Watchtower Society or are in the process of getting out know, reality comes as a very nasty shock to people who live in these misty realms of lala land. The Bible and people who believe in it make a whole lot of extraordinary claims, which they tell us we have to accept or suffer the consequences. Consequences, which severity vary according to the degree of orthodoxy of the “messenger”. Some will torment us forever in Hell, others will simply wipe us out, but they all have in common the idea that people who don’t buy their brand of superstition do not deserve a life and a future. Is any of this based on facts, as we know them? No, they are based on very old superstitious writings and fantasies. The obvious FACT that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, is completely ignored by “believers”.
Norm.
a great deal of believers seems to suffer the delusion that atheism is some kind of religion.
on the theist agenda seem to be a claim that atheism isnt anymore scientific than theism.
and that theism doesnt promote a state of stupidity in theists.. atheism, which basically is absence of faith in god, in itself, might not be particularly scientific.
A great deal of “believers” seems to suffer the delusion that Atheism is some kind of religion. On the Theist ”agenda” seem to be a claim that Atheism isn’t anymore ”scientific” than Theism. And that Theism doesn’t promote “a state of stupidity” in Theists.
Atheism, which basically is absence of faith in God, in itself, might not be particularly scientific. The same can of course be said about Theism.
There can be no doubt however that Theism actively promote and perpetuate “stupidity” in the form of the most blatant superstition. Most if us here have a common background in the Watchtower organization and we have all experienced the extreme stupidity promoted by the Watchtower Society. We have also been able to observe the same stupidity displayed by Jehovah's Witnesses “half brothers”, the fundamentalists, not to mention the stupidity we can see are being promoted by Islam. Now what do I mean by stupidity here? I mean all the superstitious ideas held and promoted by Theists. Superstition - like believing in demons, resurrection, virgin birth, miracles like walking on water, etc. “Faith is to the human what sand is to the ostrich”.
This does not necessarily mean that Theists are more stupid that the Atheists, but only that Theist let themselves succumb to their religious emotions and accept things that have absolutely nothing to do with sense and logic. Atheists having dismissed such obvious superstition and allowed themselves to be sceptic tend to look to science for explanations of the origin and meaning of life and such existential questions.
For people who believe in God, it somehow seems like a very big deal that not accepting the existence of God require faith, just like it require faith to accept the existence of God. I agree that technically it is an act of “faith” not to accept the existence of God, as it is impossible to prove that he doesn’t exist. But in reality the two different forms of “faith” can’t be compared at all. All they have in common is merely the word "faith".
No one can prove that, Thor, Shiva, Santa, the tooth fairy, Bigfoot etc don’t exist either, still I do not “believe” in them, I don’t think that NOT believing in them make me very religious and that NOT “believing” in God, make me part of a religion, within any means of any sane definition. To have faith in the existence of God (particularly the one described in the Bible) also require the believer to accept a set of additional extremely superstitious notions as mentioned above. Of course the superstition will vary from fundamentalists to the more “liberal” believers, but still it is a whole different world. So to compare the simple “faith” in the non-existence of God or God’s with the complete set of superstition shared by the religious community is of course quite hopeless.
To put a little more “meat on the bone” the theist’s also like to postulate that confidence in evolution require faith, and then voila, they have created a new religion they call atheism. Somehow this seems to be very comforting for them. There might be people who have a religious like relationship to evolution; but I hardly think they are in any majority. The whole idea that atheism is a kind of religion seems to me to be extremely simplistic and far-fetched.
Norm.
a person over at wol (retcon) is apparently very indignant about ibm supplying the nazis with equipment for the administration of some of the concentration camps in nazi germany.
this equipment was used to classify the prisoners in the camps, and he mention that the ibm equipment helped kill between 700,000 and 1,2 million people.
he is of course appalled at the "corporate greed" shown by ibm.. he is also totally ignorant about watchtower society history and has never given much thought to what happens if the good news hes spreading should ever happen.. it must be very disturbing for brooklyn, which has been a very good customer for ibm during the years.
A person over at WOL (retcon) is apparently very indignant about IBM supplying the Nazi’s with equipment for the administration of some of the concentration camps in Nazi Germany. This equipment was used to classify the prisoners in the camps, and he mention that the IBM equipment helped kill between 700,000 and 1,2 million people. He is of course appalled at the "corporate greed" shown by IBM.
He is also totally ignorant about Watchtower Society history and has never given much thought to what happens if the “Good News” he’s “spreading” should ever happen.
It must be very disturbing for Brooklyn, which has been a very good customer for IBM during the years. Now all Jehovah's Witnesses have to throw out all those pesky IBM computers. Yeah, right! This poor guy don’t know that Brooklyn is heavily involved with the “evil” IBM:
*** g84 4/22 23 MEPS-An Exciting Leap Forward in Publishing ***
To meet these needs, one team of Witnesses began work in Brooklyn on a system that employed a large IBM mainframe computer as well as IBM text entry terminals and an Autologic corporation phototypesetter. Nearly a hundred miles away at Watchtower Farms near Wallkill, New York, the other team started work on an in-house-produced system they called MEPS. In Brooklyn the team developed excellent programs, or software, using principally IBM equipment, or hardware. IBM later called this program the “Integrated Publishing System,” or IPS. The respected Seybold Report on Publishing Systems, Volume 12, No. 1, September 13, 1982, commented:
“IBM is trying once again to increase its presence in the industry, and the vehicle by which it hopes to do so is an interesting package called the ‘Integrated Publishing System’ (IPS). IPS was not developed by IBM,” the report acknowledges, but “[by] Watchtower, the publishing arm of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, where it was created primarily for their internal use.”
Like MEPS, IPS is a multilanguage system, expandable to handle any of the world’s languages. Publications in over 90 languages have already been produced at Brooklyn headquarters using IPS. Because of its size and flexibility, some 140 terminals use the system with instant access to its data base of shared information.
The Watchtower Society is now using the IBM equipment in a similar way, as the Nazi’s to classify mankind into Jehovah's Witnesses and non-Jehovah's Witnesses. That way Jehovah will know who to exterminate and who to protect.
*w89 9/1 19 - 7 Only Jehovah's Witnesses,those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4)
Jehovah will then be able to kill over 6 billion people instead of the measly few millions Hitler was able kill with the aid of IBM.
Yeah, Jehovah will kill 6+ billon people, real soon, any time now! If that isn’t Good News I don’t know what is folks! Hallelujah! I guess retcon newer thought much about that.
Norm.
fanatics and such always seem to be in need of a crash course in how to dodge and wiggle out of embarrassing situations.
it is very handy to be able to talk yourself, and possibly others, away from the fact that you are a fanatic, which hasnt got a leg to stand on.
the procedure is, lie convincingly.. if you like to be able to do that, join jehovah's witnesses.
Fanatics and such always seem to be in need of a crash course in how to dodge and wiggle out of embarrassing situations. It is very handy to be able to talk yourself, and possibly others, away from the fact that you are a fanatic, which hasn’t got a leg to stand on. The procedure is, lie convincingly.
If you like to be able to do that, join Jehovah's Witnesses. Take a look at this sterling example:
*** km 11/90 6 Are You Ready to Face a Faith-Challenging Medical Situation? ***
LOADED QUESTIONS TO WATCH OUT FOR
30 You should know that there are some questions that doctors and others pose that arenot always asked with good motive. The one most frequently asked by doctors (and by some judges) is:
• “Would you rather die (let your child die) than accept a ‘lifesaving blood transfusion’?”
31 If you say yes, that would be correct in a religious sense. But that reply is often misunderstood and at times even produces adverse court decisions. You must remember that you are not in the ministry in this situation. Rather, you are talking about needed medical treatment. Hence, you must adapt to your audience, medical or legal.—Ps. 39:1; Col. 4:5, 6.
32 To a doctor, a judge, or a hospital administrator, “yes” can mean you want to be a martyr or want to sacrifice your child for your faith. Telling them about your strong faith in the resurrection in this situation will not usually help. They will brand you a religious fanatic, unable to make rational decisions when life is at stake. In the case of children, they will see you as a negligent parent who refuses so-called “lifesaving” medical treatment.
Notice the old “bad motive” cliché. Why not ask if the answer they suggest that the Jehovah's Witness should give is given with a good motive? It is quite hilarious to see that the Watchtower Society admit that an HONEST answer from the Jehovah's Witness would reveal to the doctor or judge that the dub in reality is a “religious fanatic, unable to make rational decisions when life is at stake.”
Of course the Watchtower can’t have people going around admitting to what they really are, so then this little “tutorial” will be handy. If anyone should still actually believe the insane idea that the “blood resistance” among Jehovah's Witnesses is something every dub has come up with “personally” they need to read this particular KM.
Norm.
