Norm

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  12

  Bibles view of women and children.

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  christians want that everything must be wholesome and up building.

  of course nothing could be considered more so than the bible, the word of god.

  in our society we are very concerned with human rights and in particular the rights of women and children.

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  Norm

  Logi,

  You said:

  So Norm, what are you complaining about? Go have some fun.

  Could you please explain exactly what FUN you talk about here?

  Norm.
• 
  12

  Bibles view of women and children.

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  christians want that everything must be wholesome and up building.

  of course nothing could be considered more so than the bible, the word of god.

  in our society we are very concerned with human rights and in particular the rights of women and children.

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  Norm

  Christians want that everything must be “wholesome” and “up building”. Of course nothing could be considered more so than the Bible, the “Word of God”. In our society we are very concerned with human rights and in particular the rights of women and children. Let us take a look at some pretty substantial examples of the Biblical and subsequently God’s view of women and children:

  *** Rbi8 Numbers 31:14-18 ***
  And Moses grew indignant at the appointed men of the combat forces, the chiefs of the thousands and the chiefs of the hundreds who were coming in from the military expedition. 15 So Moses said to them: “Have YOU preserved alive every female… 17 And now kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had intercourse with man by lying with a male. 18 And preserve alive for yourselves all the little ones among the women who have not known the act of lying with a male.

  *** Rbi8 Numbers 31:31-41 ***
  31 And Moses and El•e•a'zar the priest went doing just as Jehovah had commanded Moses. 32 And the booty, the rest of the plunder that the people of the expedition had taken as plunder, amounted to six hundred and seventy-five thousand of the flock, … 35 As for human souls from the women who had not known the act of lying with a male, all the souls were thirty-two thousand… 40 And the human souls were sixteen thousand, and the tax on them for Jehovah was thirty-two souls. 41 Then Moses gave the tax as Jehovah’s contribution to El•e•a'zar the priest, just as Jehovah had commanded Moses.

  *** Rbi8 Judges 21:10-12 ***
  10 Hence the assembly proceeded to send twelve thousand of the most valiant men there and to command them, saying: “Go, and YOU must strike the inhabitants of Ja'besh-gil'e•ad with the edge of the sword, even the women and the little ones. 11 And this is the thing that YOU should do: Every male and every woman that has experienced lying with a male YOU should devote to destruction.” 12 However, they found out of the inhabitants of Ja'besh-gil'e•ad four hundred girls, virgins, that had not had intercourse with a man by lying with a male. So they brought them to the camp at Shi'loh, which is in the land of Ca'naan.

  *** Rbi8 Judges 19:22-30 ***
  22 While they were making their hearts feel good, look! the men of the city, mere good-for-nothing men, surrounded the house, shoving one another against the door; and they kept saying to the old man, the owner of the house: “Bring out the man that came into your house, that we may have intercourse with him.” 23 At that the owner of the house went on out to them and said to them: “No, my brothers, do not do anything wrong, please, since this man has come into my house. Do not commit this disgraceful folly. 24 Here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out, please, and YOU rape them and do to them what is good in YOUR eyes.But to this man YOU must not do this disgraceful, foolish thing.”

  As you can see it wasn’t very easy to be a woman or a child in Biblical times. Only Jewish women had anything resembling rights. Non-Jewish women and children were as we can see fair game. Notice that Jehovah and Moses was only interested in the “little ones” that had not been engaging is sex, i.e. children that had not had sexual intercourse. The little girls that weren’t virgins were to be slaughtered. As the Bible show us sex with children was quite clearly considered normal. Why else should they need to check which one of the "little ones" who was virgins? Of course the Jewish men could enjoy these little girls as sex slaves for themselves as well as use them for other slave work. And people wonder why the Watchtower Society is full of pedophiles? I mean those who consider this the “word of God” and long back for the days when they could stone people outside the city gates and molest any child they fancied?

  *w52 11/15 703 - **We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. "Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee."-Deut. 13:6-11, As being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship.

  *w60 2/1 80 - 17 There may be rare instances where a child is so hardened in its stubbornness that even the rod of correction cannot drive it out. In the days of Israel parents were instructed by Jehovah to take such a rebel to the city fathers and they, in turn, took the incorrigible one out and stoned him to death. There were no juvenile delinquents under such a system.(Deut. 21:18-21) So also today, the New World society of Jehovah's witnesses can not and will not tolerate juvenile delinquency to exist in its midst. So, to avoid a possible death-dealing blow by being disfellowshiped from the congregation,

  What a wonderful time it was! No “no juvenile delinquents”, and although you couldn’t “desire” a fellow Jews wife, all non-Jewish females was available, and Jewish men could kill a little girl’s family, preferably in front of her, then ascertain her virginity and take her home, neat, eh? Really up building and wholesome material.
  People who actually consider this the “word of God” will find good excuses for every evil deed under the sun in the Bible.

  If mankind hadn’t progressed but still insisted that such treatment of people that didn’t belong to the same tribe, faith etc was not only acceptable but a command from God, we would still be doing this to each other. In fact some places people are still doing it.

  People who read this and actually believe that God ordered these things will of course be more than willing to abuse children given half a chance. Why grapple with grown women when you can have sex with kids? Of course “Jehovah” doesn’t really have anything against it, because he actually ordered it done, back in the good old days,
  will be such people’s rationale.

  You see, the Watchtower Society isn’t really the problem, the problem started long before anyone had ever heard about them. The attitudes toward fellow human beings that is instilled in “believers” who accept Biblical “moral values” like the ones above is the real problem.

  Norm.
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  Will they ever learn?

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  incredible as it may seem the february 1.

  2000, issue of the watchtower actually yet again quote the old prune, the talk from cedar point in 1922, advertise, advertise, advertise.

  of course not one word about what they were actually advertising back then.

• 

  Norm

  Incredible as it may seem the February 1. 2000, issue of the Watchtower actually yet again quote the old prune, the talk from Cedar Point in 1922, “Advertise, advertise, advertise”. Of course not one word about what they were actually advertising back then. The whole article is about “Jehovah not being late”, based on Habakkuk 2: 3:

  For [the] vision is yet for the appointed time, and it keeps panting on to the end, and it will not tell a lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it; for it will without fail come true. It will not be late.

  These articles get lamer and more far fetched every day as they jump and skip around in the Bible to spin together their wild fantasies. On page 15 it is claimed that, like Habakkuk Jehovah's servants today “know” that “Jehovah will not be late”. Do you know any Jehovah's Witness who “know” this? If there is one thing anyone half familiar with the Bible and the Watchtower Society should have learned by now it that they don’t KNOW anything.

  According to the Bible the apostles was expecting this much advertised end to come in their lifetime. According to the book of Revelation, it was to occur SOON. In case someone have missed it we are now well into a year with the number 2000 on it, and what was supposed to happen SOON have yet to materialize. The Watchtower Society has been ranting on about the imminence of the same thing for over 100 years without much to show for them but a lot of failure, and yet the Watchtower claim that they KNOW it “will not be late”. Dear oh dear, talk about meaningless drivel.

  On page 23 under one of the hilariously idiotic Watchtower illustrations § 17 assures the reader for the umpteenth time that they can be SURE that Habakkuk’s words will SOON be fulfilled! Yeah right. Just as sure as in: 1874, 1914, 1918, 1919, 1920, 1925, 1975 etc.

  When will these idiots learn?

  Norm.
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  2

  A TRUE BELIEVER

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what happens if someone actually takes the bible serious?

  really acts upon its message?

  history have provided us with many examples of this and the watchtower societies second president personally had one particularly spectacular go at it.. the watchtower society second president j. f. rutherford was in a hurry to get the new system going while he was still alive.

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  Norm

  What happens if someone actually takes the Bible serious? Really acts upon it’s message? History have provided us with many examples of this and the Watchtower Societies second President personally had one particularly spectacular go at it.

  The Watchtower Society second President J. F. Rutherford was in a hurry to get the “new system” going while he was still alive. He had several attempt’s at it. 1918, 1919, 1920 and 1925. After that he had an understandable aversion of presenting any more concrete dates but he concentrated on just babbling on how incredibly close the end was.

  “During the few remaining months until the breaking of that universal cataclysm the powers that rule the nations of the earth will continue to make treaties and tell the people that by such means they will keep the world peace and bring about prosperity.” Universal War Near, 1935, page. 27.

  As we know the Bible and particularly Paul was pretty hysteric about the imminence of Jesus return, and how urgent the “times” was. Paul thought that marriage and such matters was very immature because people didn’t have the time to indulge in such “worldly” matters now that the new system was at hand. As we know Paul was a gullible idiot and nothing of what he babbled about ever happened. But in “True Believer” style one complete failure do not deter another complete idiot. Rutherford health was deteriorating and he wanted the “end” to come before he died so he became very impatient. All idiots like to drag as many people as usual with them in their idiocy, if they can convince more people to buy the crap it somehow make their lunacy seem less loony. Rutherford was quite fortunate in that department, because he had a comparatively large number of extremely gullible people in his cult already so he had little trouble in selling his latest fantasy. Everybody had to participate in his weird world.

  Anyway, Rutherford had a last insane stab at it and wrote the book “Children”. In this book he took Paul dead serious and admonished the R&F not to get married and those poor dopes who were already married shouldn’t have children. He wrote:

  “Should men and women, both of whom are Jonadabs or "other sheep" of the Lord, now marry before Armageddon and bring forth children? They may choose to do so, but the admonition or advice of the Scriptures appears to be against it.” Children 1941, page. 311.

  With Armageddon a “few months away” the true believers wouldn’t risk such an added inconvenience as children. Children was written as a dialog between two Jehovah's Witnesses John and Eunice. John want her to set a date for the marriage, but Eunice being a complete idiot of course had to check with the “scriptures” first. I mean a book written by obviously superstitious people several thousands of years ago should always be consulted before marriage, right?. Before going to the bathroom, buying a car and crossing the street you should always consult the “scriptures”. Particularly Paul and his fantasies about an imminent end which obviously never happened back then either. But in the Book Children we get to follow the insane reasoning first hand:

  “That would seem to mean that those who would have infants during Armageddon would suffer much greater woe because of their care of the same. it is a great responsibility to rear children and care for them now, and it would be far greater difficulty to care for them during the time of the great tribulation upon the earth.” Children 1941, page. 312, 313.

  John, is also catching on to the idiocy and says:
  
  

  “Armageddon is surely near, and during that time the Lord will clean off the earth everything that offends and is disagreeable. Then, by His grace, we shall begin our life with a greater vision and prolonged joy. Now we see by faith the great THEOCRACY, and we are wholly and unreservedly committed to that righteous government. From now on we shall have our heart devotion fixed on THE THEOCRACY, knowing that soon we shall journey for ever together in the earth. Our hope is that within a few years our marriage may be consummated and, by the Lord's grace, we shall have sweet children that will be an honor to the Lord. We can well defer our marriage until lasting peace comes to the earth. Now we must add nothing to our burdens, but be free and equipped to serve the Lord. When THE THEOCRACY is in full sway it will not be burdensome to have a family . . . We shall not see each other very often for a time, but we can have like thoughts every day of the glorious prospect that is set before us. Children 1941, pp. 366-367.

  Here we get a good look at how tragic and insane things get when someone actually take the Bible serious. In Paul’s days they scurried around waiting for the end to occur any day, very “soon”. An end which of course never happened in Paul’s lifetime. Do “Believers” learn anything from this? Of course they don’t. Here Rutherford got it into his head that now finally was the time for what didn’t happen in Paul’s days. Based on what? His own fantasy and wishful thinking of course. After all wasn’t it going to happen “soon”? So then it was yet again time for more madness in following Paul’s insane “counsel”.

  Like Paul, Rutherford died and as usual the much hyped Armageddon didn’t materialize. After Rutherford died the Watchtower Society continued this completely idiotic not marrying policy until Knorr and some other big shots suddenly got married, then the whole embarrassing incident was slowly forgotten.

  A pity they didn’t continued to follow Paul’s advice of not getting married and having children, that would have lead to a healthily dwindling number of Jehovah's Witnesses. I for one think that all “true” Christians should follow Paul’s advice, that would make the world a much better place.

  But I am afraid that in the end of this millennium there will still be some “believers” ranting on about Armageddon coming “soon”.

  Norm.
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  130

  America Bashing

  by TR in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with all of the america bashing going on of late, i thought i'd mention the fact that america stands for freedom, as flawed as our system may be.

  you're even free to be critical of the government and it's leaders.

  the many men and women who have died defending this country did so to preserve the rights even of people who hate the u.s. there are many different cultures here, so there are many different attempts at creating laws for the land.

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  Norm

  Hi folks,

  Just wanted to say I am not proud of being a Norwegian, I am not proud of being white, I am not even proud of being a human being.
  I had absolutely no influence over any of this, no choice.

  What the hell is there to be proud of in sheer coincidence?

  Sheesh!

  Norm.
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  10

  Do you choose sides, or do you choose truth?

  by Seeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for example, ask someone to give their opinion on a political issue, and often you will hear, "well, i'm a (political party), so i think..." that's not thinking about the issue, it's choosing sides.

  to be fair, one hopes that much thought went into the decision to choose that side in the first place, but it's still not the point.

  no side can contain all truth and no falsehood.

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  Norm

  Hello Godrules;

  You said:

  It is Jehovah vs. Satan.

  In a battle between Jehovah and Satan. I am with Jehovah.
  In a battle between Jehovah and WTS. I am with Jehovah.
  In a battle between Jehovah and apostates. I am with Jehovah.
  In a battle between Jehovah and my personal tastes. I am with Jehovah.
  In a battle between Jehovah and inmorality. I am with Jehovah.
  In a battle between Jehovah and humans. I am with Jehovah.

  I guess you are on Jehovah's side in his battle against babies too?

  *** Rbi8 Psalms 137:9 9 Happy will he be that grabs ahold and does dash to pieces Your children against the crag.
  Of David.

  Norm
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  9

  Germany, the "truth" is worth lying...

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the multinational printing empire and con operation in brooklyn better known as the watchtower society is in a desperate struggle to appear mainstream and normal to the general public all over the world.

  after over 100 years of publishing the most insane drivel and countless failed predictions this is of course an uphill struggle.. what makes it even harder is that they merely want to foster the illusion that the watchtower society is mainstream.

  they have no wish for it to actually be mainstream.

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  Norm

  Thank you for your kind comments folks.

  I sincerely hope that all of those participants on this board who are without an “agenda”, who are untiring champions, knights, protectors of women and has such immense concern for our precious lurkers. Those who can agonize for months over certain unspeakable insulting words and foul language, might be able muster up the energy to finally do something about the Watchtower Society and write to the politicians in the German parliament, the Bundestag. I mean really show some interest for something that really matters, just this once. So far I only know of ONE person who has bothered, and for some reason he’s the most foul mouthed, “agenda” ridden “conspirator” on the entire board. Strange, huh?

  Take care,

  Norm.
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  9

  Germany, the "truth" is worth lying...

  by Norm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the multinational printing empire and con operation in brooklyn better known as the watchtower society is in a desperate struggle to appear mainstream and normal to the general public all over the world.

  after over 100 years of publishing the most insane drivel and countless failed predictions this is of course an uphill struggle.. what makes it even harder is that they merely want to foster the illusion that the watchtower society is mainstream.

  they have no wish for it to actually be mainstream.

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  Norm

  The multinational printing empire and con operation in Brooklyn better known as the Watchtower Society is in a desperate struggle to appear mainstream and “normal” to the general public all over the world. After over 100 years of publishing the most insane drivel and countless failed predictions this is of course an uphill struggle.

  What makes it even harder is that they merely want to foster the ILLUSION that the Watchtower Society is “mainstream”. They have no wish for it to actually be mainstream. For example, we have seen how hard they have tried to sell the illusion that the Watchtower Society don’t have a central authority that rules the congregations by issuing detailed orders on just about anything. They have even issued orders to the elders to lie about this and claim that the congregation has great autonomy from Brooklyn.

  The whole effort so far has been to create an illusion while maintaining status quo behind the scenes.

  The latest effort in this regard is now taking place in Germany where the Watchtower Society want to become a recognized Church like for instance the Catholic Church. They want the same “privileges” as the “Great Harlot”. They want to jump into the bed with the “Kings of the earth” and have “relationship” with the same “beast” that has fornicated with the “Great Harlot”. Now they can become a lesser Harlot. Me oh my how the times have changed in Brooklyn.

  In response to a so-called Enquete Commission hearing the Watchtower Society has made a 7 page document which among other things state:

  "The necessity of voluntary commitment for fellow humans is deepened through Christian understanding. Religious service and civil commitment therefore are directly associated . . . [Jesus] Christ himself emphasized the unselfish giving that is to be expressed by not expecting any service in return."

  I have been looking through the whole document it is in German and though I understand a lot, it isn’t my favourite language. In the beginning they go on about how much is up the individual Witness, as if any Jehovah's Witnesses have ever enjoyed any individual freedom to choose anything. As far as I can see we have the usual strange and really far fetched definitions about voluntary and civil commitment.

  For instance taking care of ones own family and aging seem to be “civil commitment” in the eyes of the Watchtower Society. Elders visiting people in the congregation is the same. We of course have the old song and dance about relief aid in disaster situations where we know that the Watchtower Society don’t care about anyone but their own. Even rousing people out of their beds on Sunday morning seem to be counted as civil commitment.

  The document even mention the huge project about the Watchtower Society whitewashing of their history during the Nazi era, where they have exploited the old “surviving” Witnesses for all their worth in order to appear mainstream. Apparently this show their civil commitment.

  They also refer to a number of articles in various Awake! Magazines with typical “window dressing” articles about people with Alzheimer and such, which of course don’t touch upon anything even remotely connected to their alleged “civil commitment”. But the title of the articles might seem superficially convincing.
  Those articles all end with the usual crap about “soon the Kingdom of God is going to solve all these problems” and as usual not a word about HOW the “kingdom” is going to do that. The document seems to me to be among the worst misrepresentation of what the Watchtower Society stand for that I have ever laid eyes on.

  Let us again take a look at the short quote from the news site:

  "The necessity of voluntary commitment for fellow humans is deepened through Christian understanding. Religious service and civil commitment therefore are directly associated . . . [Jesus] Christ himself emphasized the unselfish giving that is to be expressed by not expecting any service in return."

  Already here the weasel worded face of the Watchtower Society shine through.
  Let us compare this quote above with this one:

  *** w93 4/15 31 Do You Remember? ***
  When he was on earth, Jesus did not try to solve all the social problems of his day. When Jehovah by means of his Messianic Kingdom enforces his righteous principles on a global scale, environmental problems will be permanently solved.

  And compare it with this one:

  *** w87 1/15 4 'Preaching the Gospel' Through Social Work ***
  On the other hand, one must ask: Has the social gospel really achieved its aim? Has it made real Christians of those who have benefited from the charitable works? Has it given the people true faith and hope? Even more importantly, we must ask: Is this what Jesus had in mind when he commissioned his followers to ‘preach the gospel in all the world’?

  Look at the completely twisted reasoning here:

  *** w87 1/15 9 Jehovah's Witnesses in the Missionary Field ***
  So while Jehovah’s Witnesses do not put stress on what is commonly referred to as the social gospel, they actively contribute to community interests by helping others to bring their lives into harmony with the high standards of the Bible. (Romans 12:1, 2) Most importantly, they are also helping people everywhere to look beyond the injustices and inequalities of this rapidly deteriorating system of things to the new system of God’s making, soon to come.

  *** w87 1/15 8 Jehovah's Witnesses in the Missionary Field ***
  That sets the priority for modern-day disciples of Jesus Christ. They, too, must put preaching the Kingdom good news as their primary objective, over and above performing humanitarian works. That is what missionaries of Jehovah’s Witnesses endeavor to do.

  Do these quotes leave any doubt about how the Watchtower Society view civil and social commitment to the general human society?

  Have you had enough? Want some more callous, sick and depraved reasoning? Well here is some more:

  *** w87 1/15 7 Jehovah's Witnesses in the Missionary Field ***
  Contrast in Viewpoints
  It is undeniable that the missionaries of Christendom have made many converts by the social services they provide. But because such works are directed mainly at satisfying the people’s material needs rather than their spiritual ones, these missionaries have not been successful in making real disciples of Jesus Christ. (Matthew 7:22, 23; 28:19, 20) More importantly, they have not been able to point out any permanent solution to the social ills they are trying to overcome.
  Jehovah’s Witnesses, on the other hand, are concerned with the more important commission of preaching the good news of God’s Kingdom. (Matthew 24:14) This is not because they are unaware of or unconcerned about all the human suffering and injustices they see. Rather, it is because they recognize that the only remedy for these serious problems lies, not in human hands, but in God’s Kingdom.

  *** w76 9/1 536 Philemon: Christian Brotherly Love-Not a "Social Gospel" ***
  Philemon: Christian Brotherly Love—Not a “Social Gospel”
  CHRISTIANS with accurate Bible knowledge know that they are not commissioned to change the world. They are in the world but are no part of it. (John 15:19; 17:16) So they do not concentrate on trying to improve world conditions, for both the Bible and human experience show that attempting to do so is a futile task.

  Is there anyone who still haven’t got it? Do you still think that Jehovah's Witnesses are “committed” to helping people with their real problems? Then take a look at this and see what they think about those who do and how easily they dismiss such efforts:

  *** w90 8/15 18 Loyally Working With Jehovah ***
  Doing “Good Works” Today
  11 Work that is worthwhile today must reflect the urgency of our times. Many sincere people agree and busy themselves with works that are often described as “good works,” performed for the benefit of mankind in general or for one cause specifically. Yet, how frustrating this kind of work can be! In Britain, CAFOD (Catholic Fund for Overseas Development), reporting on its campaign for famine relief, said: “Three years ago . . . millions of pounds were raised for relief aid. Thousands of lives were saved. Now those lives are at risk once more . . . But why? What went wrong?” Continuing its account, the CAFOD Journal explains that long-term problems were never tackled and that “resources desperately needed for human development have been used to fuel the conflict [civil war].” Doubtless, you have heard like sentiments echoed by charities engaged in similar work.

  Yes indeed, how frustrating it must be to help starving people, as soon as you have helped them they are hungry again, who would have thought that? Why not let the poor buggers die in peace, that’s what the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses, the only real true Christians in the world would do:

  *** w90 8/15 18 Loyally Working With Jehovah ***
  Doing “Good Works” Today
  12 Famine is an urgent problem. Yet, who are identifying today’s tragedies of famine and war as fulfilling Jesus Christ’s prophecy, pointing to the end of the present system of things? (Matthew 24:3, 7) Who has published evidence linking these events with the ride of the four horsemen vividly portrayed in the Bible book of Revelation, chapter 6? Consistently, Jehovah’s Witnesses have loyally done so in this journal. Why? To show that it is beyond the reach of man to fashion any lasting remedy.

  Jehovah's Witnesses are such compassionate people, what would they do to the starving people? Why, they would no doubt with a polite smile point out to them that Jesus had foretold the famine that would kill them, what a privilege, eh? What wonderful relief it must have been for the starving to be told about the 4 horsemen in the Bible. Then Witnesses, of course still smiling that wonderful serene theocratic smile, leave the starving to fulfil Jesus prophecy. Jehovah's Witnesses understand something that no other human being understand, what is this? They know it is beyond the reach of man to fashion any lasting remedy. Who are they to interfere with the Divine plan of people starving? Does this mean that Jehovah's Witnesses are indifferent to suffering? Of course not!

  *** w90 8/15 18 Loyally Working With Jehovah ***
  Doing “Good Works” Today
  This does not mean that Christians are indifferent to the world’s problems. Far from it. They are compassionate and will do all they can to alleviate suffering. Still, they realistically face the fact that without divine intervention, the world’s problems will never be resolved. Like the poor, these problems will remain as long as Satan is permitted to continue as the ruler of this world.—Mark 14:7; John 12:31.

  How and when have the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses done anything likedo all they can to alleviate suffering.? Why not be honest and admit what all these quotes from the Watchtower rally say? It says that there is no use in helping hungry people, they get hungry again and again, let them die, God will take care of it soon.

  And these sick and perverted excuses for human beings have the nerve to brag to the German National assembly what wonderfully civic minded people they are?

  Anyone who feel like telling German politicians how they feel about this can write to the following addresses:

  Vorsitzender: Dr. Michael Bürsch (SPD)
  Stellv. Vorsitzende: Marie-Luise Dött (CDU)
  Deutscher Bundestag
  Platz der Republik 1
  D-11011 Berlin

  Norm
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  16

  2300 evenings and mornings...say WHAT??????

  by coult9056 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone really believe the jaydub fulfillment of the 2300 evenings and mornings from daniel 8:14?

  it's in the bookstudy book, and was mentioned in the january 15, 2001 watchtower.

  surely they don't really expect the flock to believe that a bible prophecy was fulfilled by a talk at a district convention.

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  Norm

  Hi there Had Enough,

  You said:

  Who can argue with the plain facts in front of your face?

  Any "true believer" can argue with anything. Particularly facts. True Believers don't accepts facts. Make beleive fantasies and emotions are far more real than facts. I mean they do "BELIEVE" it so then it has to be TRUE! Right?

  Norm
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  16

  2300 evenings and mornings...say WHAT??????

  by coult9056 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone really believe the jaydub fulfillment of the 2300 evenings and mornings from daniel 8:14?

  it's in the bookstudy book, and was mentioned in the january 15, 2001 watchtower.

  surely they don't really expect the flock to believe that a bible prophecy was fulfilled by a talk at a district convention.

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  Norm

  “Flickering light”

  Have you ever considered this excellent example of how the «light flashes» in Brooklyn? No? Then let us look at the story about the «2,300 evening’s and morning’s» Did you know that «Jehovah» makes his official announcements in the Watchtower magazine? You didn’t? Well take a look at this:

  “This Resolution was adopted by congregations of Jehovah’s witnesses throughout the earth. The announcement in the Watchtower magazine of October 15, 1932, at the end of 2,300 evenings and mornings was the official notification made by Jehovah through his visible channel of communication that his sanctuary of anointed “living stones” had been cleansed, vindicated and justified.” Watchtower, October 1. 1959, page 601-2.

  It is indeed nice to know that «Jehovah» has shown such great interest in us that he’s even printing his own magazine in which he publish his «official notifications» for our benefit. Look how thorough «Jehovah» explains it all in his magazine:

  «In 1918 the "little horn" of Daniel 8:9, the Anglo-American dual world power, had cast down the place of this spiritual sanctuary, and in 1926 it together with other nations committed the "transgression that makes desolate" in connection with the League of Nations. This marked the beginning of the count of the 2,300 "evenings and mornings" mentioned in Daniel 8:14, at the end of which period of time Jehovah's sanctuary was to be restored to its rightful state. This period of six years four months and twenty days ended on October 15, 1932, when "The Watchtower," the official journal of the sanctuary class, published the evidence that the sanctuary class on earth had been cleansed and the sanctuary restored to its rightful state by the abolition from the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses of the democratically elected "elders" and by the theocratic appointment of service directors to the congregations for preaching the Kingdom good news.»
  Watchtower, October 1. 1959, page 632.

  «If the Bible rule for counting prophetic time is applied as already set out, a prophetic year of 360 days being taken as the basic unit, 2,300 evenings and mornings would amount to six years four months and twenty days, each day being composed of an evening and a morning. (Gen. 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31) Count now from the beginning of this International Convention of London on May 25, 1926, and we shall find that the 2,300 days of evenings and mornings bring us to October 15, 1932.»
  Watchtower, October 1. 1959, page 600.

  But alas, as usual with the «official notifications» and «promises» «Jehovah» makes in the Watchtower or Awake! Magazines, sooner or later they have to be revoked. «Jehovah» is indeed very shoddy, and can’t seem to make up his mind about even the simplest matters. Anyway, he apparently got his wires crossed over when the 2,300 evenings and mornings started. As you have noticed above he clearly stated in his «official notification» that they started in May 25, 1926 and ended in October 15, 1932. Did they? Apparently not!

  “What Its "Right Condition" Means for Us Today
  When did those 2,300 evenings and mornings begin? By knowing this we can find out when they end and thus when Jehovah’s “holy place” is “brought into its right condition,” or, “shall be restored to its rightful state” (Revised Standard Version). If Jehovah’s “holy place” is “brought” or “restored” to what it should be, then we should count the days from the time when previously it was in the “right condition” from Jehovah’s viewpoint. At the earliest this was on June 1, 1938, when the official magazine of Jehovah’s anointed remnant of underpriests at His sanctuary, namely, The Watchtower, published Part One of the article entitled “Organization,” so as to state more fully the theocratic requirements for it.”
  Watchtower, December 1. 1971, page 724.

  “If we thus count from the critical period when theocratic organization was being more fully installed in the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses, when did the 2,300 days end?” Watchtower, December 1. 1971, page 724.

  «What, then, does all that combination of significant events at the critical time indicate? Apparently this: that Jehovah's "sanctuary" or "holy place" was "brought into its right condition" on time, at the end of the 2,300 evenings and mornings, in early autumn (October 8-22) of the year 1944.»
  Watchtower, December 1. 1971, page 727.

  As you clearly see from the above quotes the «2,300 evenings and mornings» now suddenly started on June 1, 1938 - six years after the time «Jehovah» clearly stated in his «official notification». Now they ended in October 8-22, 1944, not in October 15, 1932! Another embarrassing fact is that this change wasn’t noticed by anyone, until the end of 1971. When «Jehovah» issued his «official notification» in 1932, he didn’t notice the blunder until his «official» magazine» was issued in December 1971, some 39 years later! His own declared «truth» who had been dished out as «food in due time» for 39 years appeared to have been wrong all the time. Hey, just a thought, maybe it isn’t Jehovah who has issued these two conflicting statements? Who then dares to change or revise «Jehovah’s official notification»?

  There are many more amazing and hilarious examples of the flickering «light» from «Jehovah’s Official channel» in Brooklyn. It is really beyond me how anyone can regard this organization as “Jehovah’s” when it is so painfully obvious that they don’t have half a clue about the 2300 evenings and mornings, and not about anything else for that matter.

  Norm.