Reporting from NYC. Caveat that I don't know what the landscape of Kingdom Halls was before, but I was speaking with a woman a few months ago and she told me about her "new" hall. I don't know if she meant new, as in newly constructed or they just happened to renovate it. But I do know that that it is in a poorer neighborhood of New York (yes, there are some). If it's actual new construction/purchase, I can still see how it works to the Watchtower's advantage to build in lower income areas-- 1) people are looking for a hope or are possibly less educated; and 2) the property values are a little cheaper (for now). I really hope it's just a revolving door and no actual growth, but I'm still very sad that some are still getting caught in this web.
OutsiderLookingIn
JoinedPosts by OutsiderLookingIn
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Exactly where is the expansion?
by NeverKnew inthere is a thread that i'm really enjoying discussing the consolidation of congregations into existing kingdom halls.
i'm realizing that the only threads that have spoken of building were related to branch offices.
we know the wts's consolidations and reopening a are a shell game of sorts but i'm wondering... is anyone seeing an increase in kingdom halls in their part of the world?
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whats so bad about believing people go to heaven?
by sowhatnow init occurred to me today, that so often, my mother will make the comment that .
"those false religions teach that everyone is going to heaven when they die, oh sure, .
all you have to do is be a good person, and off you go to heaven.
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OutsiderLookingIn
Island Man, not only is it offensive, it's just strange to teach that the ones who want to be with God (whom you claim to love) are crazy and mentally unstable. They're quick to show you Psalm 37 that the righteous shall inherit the earth (land, in most translations) and dwell forever in it. Well does that mean there won't be righteous people in heaven? It makes no sense! -
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whats so bad about believing people go to heaven?
by sowhatnow init occurred to me today, that so often, my mother will make the comment that .
"those false religions teach that everyone is going to heaven when they die, oh sure, .
all you have to do is be a good person, and off you go to heaven.
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OutsiderLookingIn
Much agreed, Jan. I strongly doubt God is pleased that people are spending all of their waking hours hawking magazines or babysitting a cart instead of addressing real need. No one can do everything but do something! Then add to that, what I've seen in other threads, able bodied pioneers collecting disability (and in the same breath deriding government) or selling a property and giving all the proceeds to the Watchtower (that's more than a tithe by the way)--it's just crazy. The Bible does teach wisdom, whole book on it called Proverbs.
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inquiring mind has 3 questions
by OutsiderLookingIn injust a few questions from a newbie.
answer one or as many as you want.
1. why cleaners?
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OutsiderLookingIn
Thanks for your comments, everyone. Very insightful.
DJS, I think you're right. Shunning is propping them up for sure. It's shameful.
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inquiring mind has 3 questions
by OutsiderLookingIn injust a few questions from a newbie.
answer one or as many as you want.
1. why cleaners?
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OutsiderLookingIn
Thanks for that, Under the Radar. I don't look down on it at all. Whatever you do, you should do the best you can. I was even going to include a quote from Martin Luther King about street sweepers but I don't think I can edit the OP. Was just curious because it's repeatedly mentioned here. -
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inquiring mind has 3 questions
by OutsiderLookingIn injust a few questions from a newbie.
answer one or as many as you want.
1. why cleaners?
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OutsiderLookingIn
Smiddy and everyone else, no need to worry. I have absolutely zero interest in becoming a Jehovah's witness. It's more like negative interest, if that's possible. My theory was/is that never dubs are generally naive about what awaits them and love makes it easier to bend and harder (although not impossible) to walk away. So you study or try to understand. Then only after the fact do you learn what it's all about and turn here for support.
Jan, I hear you. I've had a study going for a few months with this woman I spoke to. Not sure where she thinks it's going as my initial question was about Michael not being Jesus and how that's a very disrespectful teaching. It's disappointing she gets to count me as a study. On the other hand, I'm doing my part to reverse witness and drive those hours to baptism numbers way up There have been times when I really have to restrain myself from screaming at how badly they twist the Bible to fit their craziness. What does the Bible really teach? Not that!
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inquiring mind has 3 questions
by OutsiderLookingIn injust a few questions from a newbie.
answer one or as many as you want.
1. why cleaners?
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OutsiderLookingIn
Beth Sarim, I just wanted to know how many non-JWs scratched the surface to know what JWs really believe only because a romantic interest is involved. Sorry if that was confusing.
TMS, I've certainly come to understand that unless the indoctrination is broken, it just can't work. It's sad and it's something I pray about, but human love does not conquer all. Which leads to another question--3b, perhaps: I've seen some advice that young or disfellowshipped JWs should just live their lives and date outside the small pond. But is that really fair to unsuspecting non-JWs? We're people too! You get involved, possibly married and all of a sudden, your dear darling sweetheart flips the script and is trying to get reinstated into a world of crazy you did not sign up for.
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inquiring mind has 3 questions
by OutsiderLookingIn injust a few questions from a newbie.
answer one or as many as you want.
1. why cleaners?
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OutsiderLookingIn
Just a few questions from a newbie. Answer one or as many as you want.
1. Why cleaners? This isn't a class or status question. I don't look down on people for their occupation but I'm curious. I've read so many stories here that Jehovah's Witnesses are cleaners and the few I know are tidy. What's the history of that?
2. What does 2/3 leave the religion really mean? It sounds very positive, but from my anecdotal experience and what I've read here, leaving doesn't mean they won't return or that even if they're inactive they are not still heavily indoctrinated.
3. Non-JWs/never dubs: how many first learned what JWs actually believe or became interested in the business of JWs because a significant other or a romantic interest was a JW? On another thread, I mentioned that most of us mere worldlies don't know what it's really all about until it confronts us head on. I had some forewarning and still didn't understand how captive and damaging JWs could be.
Thanks.
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What is the alternative to JW?
by Formerbrother ini mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.
im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?
the the bible is word?
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OutsiderLookingIn
Then stay where you are. That is your choice. You're right-- millions are preaching something. Some because they don't know any better, some because they're children and don't have a choice in the matter. If it doesn't matter if it's correct or that it's leading you away from Jesus and into a never-ending pursuit of good standing with a manipulative organization, then it will do.
God says, you will seek me and find me when you seek me with all of your heart (Jeremiah 29:13). You're obviously not interested in doing that. You ignore everything else I (and others) have written and question the advice to know the Bible for yourself and be discerning about a place of worship. You want someone to spoon feed their truth to you. The Watchtower is good for that. Take care.
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475
What is the alternative to JW?
by Formerbrother ini mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.
im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?
the the bible is word?
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OutsiderLookingIn
FormerBrother, the truth closest to the Bible is the Bible I think it is less important to lead you to another group (that has its own agendas) and more important to lead you to what the Bible is all about. I'm not as familiar with Mormonism but I hear it has similar characteristics of the Watchtower; perhaps, that's why it feels comfortable.
You seem to focus on the preaching work exclusively. Have you considered Galatians 1:15-19 that Paul did not preach in twos? Or Acts 8 where Philip meets the Ethiopian eunuch on the road, was he paired up? Where is the biblical command to preach in twos? Yes, Jesus told his disciples to go out make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (hmmm, does the Watchtower do that?) But how to do so was not written in stone. Furthermore, would you agree that the content of preaching is significantly more important than the mere act of preaching? There are many people preaching many things; that doesn't make it true or make them any more righteous, Christian or closer to God. What is being said matters. The phrase "garbage in, garbage out" comes to mind. Is the Watchtower preaching the gospel spread by the apostles? The Watchtower is not the true religion because it teaches clean living or some Biblical truths (and even those lessons are debatable). Most moral and religious systems have many of the same principles. The difference of Christianity is Jesus. Not just that he lived and died (many will admit a historical Jesus), but that he died for our sins, rose from the dead in a physical body, and lives forever to intercede for those who come to God through Him (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Hebrews 7:25).
Someone mentioned the church without walls; this is not just some hippy-dippy concept. The church is not the building; it is the body of believers in Jesus Christ for salvation and forgiveness of sins. It sounds like you're seeking a physical place of worship. I attend worship services at a church, but first and foremost is what they're saying. I wouldn't advise you to just show up anywhere but many of the 30,000 sects of Christianity will do just fine. And you can definitely cross the WTBTS off the list as they have proven themselves false. Again: start and end with prayer and read the Bible for yourself away from the Watchtower literature. Read entire chapters and books at a time. Just think: do you read other books by jumping from one sentence in Chapter 2 to three in Chapter 5 to the last page? The Bible looks a lot different when you read it in context. Lastly, give yourself time. There is no substitute for hard work. Once you know the Bible for yourself, it's more difficult to be misled by side issues, non-issues and made-up rules. Keep the main thing the main thing--Jesus!