Posts by OutsiderLookingIn

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

OutsiderLookingIn

Outsider, we are in agreement about everything

I'll take this and run with it, Former Brother lol. Just kidding.

except from " there isn't one right answer about a place of worship." or all roads lead to God. I just cant see how it doesnt matter to God what you believe or who you follow.
It has to matter, there has to be one truth from the bible, not different truths many different interpretations that God is pleased with opposing beliefs?
If Jws are not correct, which I will possibly accept, then which option is the correct option that god is pleased with?
There has to be one truth, there cant be more than one option. There is no place in the Bible that indicates it doesnt matter if two followers of Jesus teachings have different beliefs about the bible, they are both correct. Think about it.
So again, which option is there if not JW's?
Mormons, maybe? One of the 30K so called Christian faiths? If so which one?

I didn't say all roads lead to God or that it doesn't matter what path you follow. The Christian faith is centered on Jesus being the only way to eternal life. As a disciple of Jesus, you follow Him. Not only do you follow Jesus, you abide in Him (John 15:4-5), not trying to "be good" on your own. What (or rather, who) is the truth? We agree that it's Jesus so an accurate understanding of Him and what He did for each of us is the key issue of salvation. Jesus died for all of us, not just 144,000. JWs teach that Jesus is Michael, based on flimsy "evidence". I could start a separate thread or PM you on how circular and closed-minded this reasoning is... Given the emphasis JWs place on God's name being Jehovah, how can they so fast and loose with the name of Jesus? The only name by which we may be saved? (Acts 4:10-12).

Now as to whether place or style of worship matters, there is certainly some allowance for cultural differences. There were no Kingdom Halls or physical buildings called churches. People met in houses and the individuals were the church (ekklesia- called out ones). I agree that the Bible sets forth moral principles which have not changed, but it also cautions not to be divisive on disputed matters (Romans 14:1-12). Yet judgment on disputed and insignificant matters is the Watchtower's bread and butter: cross vs. stake; anything with pagan roots is bad unless they can use it to their advantage (wedding rings, neckties, makeup). There are rules, rules, and more rules but absolutely no spiritual transformation (Colossians 2:16-23). At the same time, it hangs its hat on demonstrably false teachings...Where exactly does the Bible speak of close association with Christ's brothers as a path to salvation? What's more important in the grand scheme of things? The Watchtower obscures the path to Jesus and that's a huge problem. Without this basis, uniformity in worship does not matter.

What do you mean by opposing beliefs? The Watchtower hasn't been a beacon of consistency so I think you must mean something else. Can you give some examples?

68

Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

by Half banana in

what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

.

OutsiderLookingIn

DY, I hope this doesn't come across too harshly but that is one of the most infuriating assumptions JWs make about us mere worldlies. I've never been a JW and I like the simple, non-depraved pleasures of life too. Most people are just doing their best to make it. Not only is it judgmental, it's blatantly hypocritical. Before JWs, I thought wife swap was only a TV show. Not swingers, but so-called Christians do that in real life? I would never have thought it.

Drawing conclusions about people who outnumber you almost 100 to 1 based on your small sample is unfair and misguided. People are people whether you go. The problems with the Watchtower outweigh its virtue of making you a wholesome person, whatever that means. I understand you have your reasons for staying and that is your choice. But the world (as defined by the JWs) isn't out to get you. Although I do hope the Panthers show out on Sunday :)

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

OutsiderLookingIn

Former Brother, I believe God still cares and provides guidance through the Bible. In the age of literacy, I believe we're responsible for picking up that guidebook and knowing it for ourselves. As I said before, there are alternatives and there isn't one right answer about a place of worship. Contrary to what the Watchtower has said, the truth is not a religion, it's Jesus. His death and more important, His resurrection, save us. It's a gift and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9). That said, since it might be hard to know where to begin, here are some concrete steps:

Step 1. Pray for guidance and clarity as you study the Bible.

Step 2. Read the Bible without WT filters, blinders or commentaries and use a non-NWT translation. NKJV, NIV and NLT are all readily available options. Read entire chapters and books. Start with the New Testament. I say this not because the Old Testament isn't important (after all, it's 2/3 of the Bible) but because I get the sense the Watchtower focuses almost exclusively on the rule based system of the Old Testament and minimizes the New Covenant through Christ.

Alternate with Step 1.

Step 3. Only after doing Steps 1 and 2 repeatedly, start visiting churches in your area. I don't know where you're located but in the US, there are many options. I've attended Baptist, Methodist and non-denominational churches. Listen to what they're saying. Even if the cited Scripture is on a screen, look it up for yourself or write it down for future reference.

At this point, you might have questions. Ask the pastor who should be willing to discuss or look into them for you. If not, that might be a sign that it's not the place for you. You should also know that even within the same denomination, you may have different experiences. Don't give up! Watchtower talks endurance but tells you to give up on anything outside its doors. Don't believe it. That's how they've kept you so far.

I don't know if you mentioned it, but what were your reasons for questioning the Watchtower (and sparking a multipage discussion)? :) Their doctrinal problems aren't going to change without losing its uniqueness from "Christendom". And love your neighbor, don't lie, and be a good citizen aren't doctrines. Was it whitewashing history or hypocrisy? Sorry, but they're digging in their heels and that's just how they roll.

Step 4. All while repeating Steps 1 and 2, shop around and be discerning. Finding a new place of worship won't happen overnight. Be patient with the process and with yourself. Nowhere is perfect because we're all imperfect but faithfulness to the Bible for the sake of Christian growth, not someone's agenda should be apparent. Take care. I really hope you find Christian freedom.

24

Exactly where is the expansion?

by NeverKnew in

jw
friends

there is a thread that i'm really enjoying discussing the consolidation of congregations into existing kingdom halls.

i'm realizing that the only threads that have spoken of building were related to branch offices.

we know the wts's consolidations and reopening a are a shell game of sorts but i'm wondering... is anyone seeing an increase in kingdom halls in their part of the world?

OutsiderLookingIn

Reporting from NYC. Caveat that I don't know what the landscape of Kingdom Halls was before, but I was speaking with a woman a few months ago and she told me about her "new" hall. I don't know if she meant new, as in newly constructed or they just happened to renovate it. But I do know that that it is in a poorer neighborhood of New York (yes, there are some). If it's actual new construction/purchase, I can still see how it works to the Watchtower's advantage to build in lower income areas-- 1) people are looking for a hope or are possibly less educated; and 2) the property values are a little cheaper (for now). I really hope it's just a revolving door and no actual growth, but I'm still very sad that some are still getting caught in this web.

33

whats so bad about believing people go to heaven?

by sowhatnow in

it occurred to me today, that so often, my mother will make the comment that .

"those false religions teach that everyone is going to heaven when they die, oh sure, .

all you have to do is be a good person, and off you go to heaven.

OutsiderLookingIn

Island Man, not only is it offensive, it's just strange to teach that the ones who want to be with God (whom you claim to love) are crazy and mentally unstable. They're quick to show you Psalm 37 that the righteous shall inherit the earth (land, in most translations) and dwell forever in it. Well does that mean there won't be righteous people in heaven? It makes no sense!

33

whats so bad about believing people go to heaven?

by sowhatnow in

it occurred to me today, that so often, my mother will make the comment that .

"those false religions teach that everyone is going to heaven when they die, oh sure, .

all you have to do is be a good person, and off you go to heaven.

OutsiderLookingIn

Much agreed, Jan. I strongly doubt God is pleased that people are spending all of their waking hours hawking magazines or babysitting a cart instead of addressing real need. No one can do everything but do something! Then add to that, what I've seen in other threads, able bodied pioneers collecting disability (and in the same breath deriding government) or selling a property and giving all the proceeds to the Watchtower (that's more than a tithe by the way)--it's just crazy. The Bible does teach wisdom, whole book on it called Proverbs.

23

inquiring mind has 3 questions

by OutsiderLookingIn in

just a few questions from a newbie.

answer one or as many as you want.

1. why cleaners?

OutsiderLookingIn

Thanks for your comments, everyone. Very insightful.

DJS, I think you're right. Shunning is propping them up for sure. It's shameful.

23

inquiring mind has 3 questions

by OutsiderLookingIn in

just a few questions from a newbie.

answer one or as many as you want.

1. why cleaners?

OutsiderLookingIn

Thanks for that, Under the Radar. I don't look down on it at all. Whatever you do, you should do the best you can. I was even going to include a quote from Martin Luther King about street sweepers but I don't think I can edit the OP. Was just curious because it's repeatedly mentioned here.

23

inquiring mind has 3 questions

by OutsiderLookingIn in

just a few questions from a newbie.

answer one or as many as you want.

1. why cleaners?

OutsiderLookingIn

Smiddy and everyone else, no need to worry. I have absolutely zero interest in becoming a Jehovah's witness. It's more like negative interest, if that's possible. My theory was/is that never dubs are generally naive about what awaits them and love makes it easier to bend and harder (although not impossible) to walk away. So you study or try to understand. Then only after the fact do you learn what it's all about and turn here for support.

Jan, I hear you. I've had a study going for a few months with this woman I spoke to. Not sure where she thinks it's going as my initial question was about Michael not being Jesus and how that's a very disrespectful teaching. It's disappointing she gets to count me as a study. On the other hand, I'm doing my part to reverse witness and drive those hours to baptism numbers way up There have been times when I really have to restrain myself from screaming at how badly they twist the Bible to fit their craziness. What does the Bible really teach? Not that!

23

inquiring mind has 3 questions

by OutsiderLookingIn in

just a few questions from a newbie.

answer one or as many as you want.

1. why cleaners?

OutsiderLookingIn

Beth Sarim, I just wanted to know how many non-JWs scratched the surface to know what JWs really believe only because a romantic interest is involved. Sorry if that was confusing.

TMS, I've certainly come to understand that unless the indoctrination is broken, it just can't work. It's sad and it's something I pray about, but human love does not conquer all. Which leads to another question--3b, perhaps: I've seen some advice that young or disfellowshipped JWs should just live their lives and date outside the small pond. But is that really fair to unsuspecting non-JWs? We're people too! You get involved, possibly married and all of a sudden, your dear darling sweetheart flips the script and is trying to get reinstated into a world of crazy you did not sign up for.