Posts by OutsiderLookingIn

2

You can defeat lies with truth. But you can only suppress truth with censorship.

by Island Man in

watchtower bans jws from visiting apostate sites and reading apostate literature.

banning is the tool of the weak and the cowardly, those lacking the courage and/or strength to defeat the enemy face to face.

we ban - quarantine - infected ebola patients from the rest of the population because it's a strong disease and we lack a cure for it.

OutsiderLookingIn

Agreed. I am extremely anti-Watchtower, but I believe that the Russian ban will do much more harm than good. It is misguided and makes the Watchtower sympathetic--a small, sweet group who wouldn't hurt a fly (paraphrasing NY Times take on their pacifist/conscientious objector stance)--in the face of an unreasonable dictator that is friends with our unpopular president. From a civil liberties perspective, this is the underdog story they love to tell. The ban diverts attention from Watchtower's major crimes--major US news outlets are running the story while I probably wouldn't know about the ARC if it weren't for this site (and, to be fair, the Washington Post).

Not only that, it will strengthen JWs in their persecution complex. Borderline JWs will believe it's a sign of the promised persecution and slink back, instead of honestly evaluating the Watchtower's failed predictions and questionable teachings.

However, I don't believe governments have as much power as that, nor should they. Governments are just as capable of propaganda through education as the Nazi youth show us. But my big objection is that it won't be effective. Governments cannot ban thoughts; at best they can regulate actions. Governments can't ban shunning ordained as the will of God; never JWs also choose not to talk to people--whether it's because the person owes them $20 or for no reason at all. So they're not changing minds by banning the Watchtower.

I don't know the history of the Watchtower in Mexico, but just based on what I've read in other posts, there was a time when Mexico drove JWs underground and isn't it now one of the Watchtower's greatest achievements? This ban is only burying a problem that will rise again later on and perhaps in a much larger way.

114

Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?

by nicolaou in

jehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.

they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.

they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?

OutsiderLookingIn

Thanks for that, Vanderhoven and Cofty, for that list. I've never been a JW and now being familiar with the beliefs, I would not characterize JW beliefs as Christian. Some negate the Nicean Creed as a standard. Interesting, since at the same time, it's admitted that there are 40,000 denominations that all seem in general agreement with it--we can barely get 40 people to agree on anything. (As an aside, I've attended Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran and non-denominational services and no one is trying to establish itself as "the one true religion" to the exclusion of all others, such that going to another church would be seen as losing salvation or leaving Jehovah/Jesus).

All of that said, telling someone they're not Christian is not something I would ever say to a JW or anyone. It's a complete nonstarter (as shown by this OP) and only serves to insult and put someone on the defensive. Then there's the fact that Christian is euphemistically meant to refer to someone who is kind or compassionate and that some refer to themselves as Christian because they were born into a family that went to church and is generally familiar with Christian beliefs. But according to the Bible, no one is born a Christian. You must be born again (John 3:5). In addition, Acts 11:26 is the first recorded mention of the term Christian, where the disciples received that name at Antioch, because they were preaching the Lord Jesus (v. 20) and a great number believed and turned to the Lord (v. 21). It doesn't matter what we call ourselves or how we characterize others. Jesus knows His own. As humans, the best we can do is observe their lives--it's by their fruit that we will know them (Matthew 7:20).

16

Any Others of the "Anointed"?

by Hernandez in

i was baptized in 1985, was a regular pioneer, ministerial servant, and on the way to becoming an elder when i left the witnesses in 1999. i also was one of those who claimed and (at the time ) believed i was one of the anointed.. i am wondering if there are any others here who also claimed they were of the anointed?

how did you come to that conclusion?

how do you feel about your claim now that you are out?.

OutsiderLookingIn

It's an interesting phenomenon and I think the consequence of a belief system that there are two eternal hopes even though the Bible only speaks of one. With JWs, you get the division of an earthly reward and a heavenly reward. As a Christian (never a JW), I can say that I don't feel I'm better than anyone else or have an anointed feeling that I'm somehow elite or more special than others. In fact, it's quite the opposite; the Christian life includes times of discouragement, uncertainty and disbelief that God somehow wants me (but He does!). So, if presented with the idea that there is an earthly and heavenly hope as JWs are, I wouldn't think that too many people are going to say, "I'm somehow different therefore I have a heavenly hope that is reserved for 144,000 people in the world for all time."

Add to that, the social pressure of Jehovah's Witnesses and a heavenly hope pretty much being looked down on (such a strange reaction by the way), you're going to have the situation where only people who read the Bible for themselves (Hernando); the mentally unstable; and those with delusions of grandeur that they are somehow different than other people are going to come forward and say that they are heavenly bound. Yes, all Christians believe in some sense that they are chosen by God but not in the sense that only 144,000 of them will be with Jesus in heaven because there are plenty of verses that open it to whoever believes in Him: as many as believe in Him are children of God (John 1:12). So it's not a matter of being special or different from others. It's a matter of being the called out ones, the ecclesia (church).

As an aside, I am still not sure how this doctrine is even propped up the way it is. Revelation 5:9-10, which is used to support that the 144,000 are the only ones ruling with Jesus, actually refutes that assertion for one of two reasons. First, those words are not attributed to the 144,000--Revelation 5:8 refers to four living creatures and the twenty-four elders. Second, verse 9 says [the Lamb/Jesus] has redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation." But the 144,000 are from the tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:4-8). It is the great multitude (crowd) which no one could number that is of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues (7:9). So it is the great crowd that have been made kings and priests (or a kingdom of priests) to our God.

Revelation 5:8-10 (NKJV)

8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us/them kings and priests to our God;
And we/they shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 7:9

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands

37

In love with a JW girl

by rastapau in

need advise.

i was in a relation with a jw girl for almost three years(im am not jw) and we are so inlove with each other until someone saw us from her congregation and she was disfellowed and that where the oddness happened.

her family and friends are not talking to her anymore, she wants me to stop seeing and talking to her anymore not until i became a baptized jw.

OutsiderLookingIn

The plot thickens. I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I didn't think of it as using her if you tell her about it. We are human beings. When we receive devastating news, most people don't want to go through it alone. After all, a brother is born for adversity (Proverbs 17:17). It's natural to want to be near those who care about you--in your case, someone who you've shared the last three years of your life with. So let her know if you like. And don't feel like you're weighing her down. It's up to her what she will do with the information.

That said, I don't know that you will necessarily get the outcome you want (compassion and reconciliation). Or if you somehow do reconcile, it seems like it might be a fast track to JW land. She'll really want you to study so you can have a chance to work for your chance at paradise. I'm not sure of your spiritual leanings but if you're Christian, you don't need JW theology. Look to Jesus; He is your peace (Ephesians 2:14). Take care.

47

The End of False Religion Is Near! HAHAHA

by tootired2care in

memories!

i remember a few years back being involved in the campaign work, and having the distinctly awkward experience of having to hand the householders this piece of sh1t tract "the end of false religion is near!"..

i recall the discomfort i had trying to get into a conversation about this nonsense.

OutsiderLookingIn

Average Joe, you're right; I don't believe that every JW is eagerly awaiting the violent death of their neighbors. That's something at least :) At the end of the day, people tend to do what they believe is in their best interest. I think that is especially true of JWs. It's why many exJWs fade instead of shouting TTATT from every rooftop. As a never JW, once I gave any serious thought to JWs and their beliefs (which wasn't until it was really in my interest to do so), I asked myself, what is it that makes them stand with magazines or knock on doors or not celebrate birthdays? These are not "normal" behaviors. It just doesn't come to someone to do any of these things. Yet JWs have been taught that offering Watchtower literature is "preaching" (what God wants them to do) and doing anything that is not OK'ed by the Governing Body is "being a part of the world" (what God doesn't want them to do). Add to that the smugness and sacrifice you can feel from standing in the heat to "preach" to a doomed world that ignores the urgent ~~message~~ magazine holding and you get a situation that most JWs are about the show, trying to rack up points with God. It's about them, and if someone comes into "the truth", it's a side benefit--or worse, a notch in their belt.

37

In love with a JW girl

by rastapau in

need advise.

i was in a relation with a jw girl for almost three years(im am not jw) and we are so inlove with each other until someone saw us from her congregation and she was disfellowed and that where the oddness happened.

her family and friends are not talking to her anymore, she wants me to stop seeing and talking to her anymore not until i became a baptized jw.

OutsiderLookingIn

Hi Rastapau, I have never been a JW, I'm a Christian, and knowing what I know now, I would NEVER join. Not for anyone, even someone I love very much (and there is/was someone). You said it all--you gave up everything and she gave up nothing. And it sounds like that will continue as you're attending meetings and have started a Bible study. She's getting what she wants and you will get nothing because it's a handful of questionable doctrines that fall apart with any real testing and Bible reading.

I wish you the best. I know love is love and it's really hard to let that go. But if your three-year true love fell apart because she ran into one person, you already know it was built on sand.

42

JW broadcasting and doubts

by Colinconfused in

hi everyone to cut a long story short, ive been away from the meetings for over 10 years.

i recently reconnected with the congregation and started a study.

cant get my head around all the changes and jw broadcasting.

OutsiderLookingIn

Hi Colin, you don't need to return to the Watchtower Corporation to teach your children about God and Jesus. Nowhere does the Bible say that God has an organization. And it certainly wouldn't be one that, as I've learned, has tried to replace Jesus. Sure, they give Jesus a token reference here and there, but they're "the truth". No, Jesus is the truth (John 14:6). And He's the way to the Father, not a speculation-driven end-time publishing company. Continue enjoying life and your beautiful family. All the best!

39

It's official - the G.B. has replaced the Holy Spirit!

by The Searcher in

the watchtower november 2016, page 16, par.

"some may feel that they can interpret the bible on their own.

however, jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only* channel for dispensing spiritual food.

OutsiderLookingIn

Thanks, Searcher. Just a question: is this from the secret study edition or what they have on the carts? If the latter, I'd love to ask the cart attendees about John 14:26 and what exactly happened in 1919 to override the Bible. If the GB still call attention to 1914/1919, it makes it harder for JWs to get away from it and the fact that nothing has happened in over 100 years of the kingdom.

14

The Last Supper

by Teddy in

i have been studying with the jw since june of 2016 and they say only the ones who make up the 144.

000 and can partake of the bread and cup.

is this true?.

OutsiderLookingIn

Hi Teddy,

I wasn't sure if your question was whether it was true that that's what JWs teach or if that interpretation is Biblically sound. It is true that JWs teach that only 144,000 should partake as they are the only ones going to heaven to rule with Christ--and this number partaking today should be decreasing with time, not increasing. But it is not Biblically sound.

It is based on stringing very distinct topics together. For one, the reference to little flock is only to his 12 disciples (or would it be 11 as they've somehow concluded that Judas had already left?) yet somehow they extrapolate based on nothing to get to the 144,000. The number is only mentioned twice in the entire Bible and both times in Revelation (ch. 7:4 and 14:1) and I find it interesting that those verses suggest they would be on earth NOT heaven. For instance, chapter 7 discusses the 144,000 being sealed before harm occurs to the earth and sea. Oh, the way they claim it's about those who will rule with Jesus is based on something the 144,000 don't even say (Revelation 5:8-10). And as freddo mentioned, the number is supposedly literal even though the reference over four verses to the distribution over the 12 tribes of Israel is purely symbolic.

What the Bible does say is that it's something to do in remembrance of Jesus (Luke 22:19-20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26) and that those who don't take the bread and cup (eat his flesh and drink his blood) have no life in them (John 6:51-56). You should ask whoever is studying with you. I remember this was one of the issues that absolutely shocked me when I learned about it. You gather once a year to pass the symbols of Jesus's sacrifice for virtually no one to partake?? Exactly what is the point? And then there's logic: in the nearly 2,000 years since Christ died, there haven't been 144,000 faithful people? There's so much to this onion and the more you peel it, the more it stinks. But that's a start. Oh, and I've never been a JW so you can say this is apostate-free information

Also, all the verses that Searcher specified are spot on. ANYONE who receives Jesus becomes a child of God.

12

Gods' name removed in Silver Sword?

by AmyWatson916 in

does anyone have an explanation about why the silver sword edition of the nwt removed god's name at exodus 34:14?

that verse is now different than the 1984 and 1970 versions of the nwt.

odd for an organization who believes that "god's name is of the utmost importance" as it says on page 195 of the bible teach book..

OutsiderLookingIn

Wanted to revise my above comment as not all jealousy is based on a *legitimate* claim --> Jealousy implies a claim over the object of jealousy. Envy is malicious feeling from wanting what's not yours..