Posts by WireRider

18

Do JWs still believe the WT version of the 144000?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

the society have taught for many years that only 144,000 individuals will have embraced true worship from the time when jesus (and presumably john the baptist six months before him) began his ministry in about 30 c.e.

when the great crowd began to be drawn in.. however, even a casual reading of the book of acts shows the phenomenal growth of christianity during the time of the apostles.

in colossians ch1 paul even makes the comment that the good news had at that point been preached to all creation that was under heaven.. in 64 c.e, there were so many christians in rome already that nero felt he could easily blame them for the destructive fire which had swept through the city.

WireRider

Revelation:

Of the sons of Israel:

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Judah.

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Reuben

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Gad

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Asher

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Naph'tali

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Manas'seh

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Simeon

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Levi

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Is'sachatt

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Zeb'ulun

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Joseph

Twelve thousand out of the tribe of Benjamin

SOMEONE please tell me why that is not specific. EHHH, it's symbolic. NO. It is very specific. NO JW/WT.

18

Do JWs still believe the WT version of the 144000?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

the society have taught for many years that only 144,000 individuals will have embraced true worship from the time when jesus (and presumably john the baptist six months before him) began his ministry in about 30 c.e.

when the great crowd began to be drawn in.. however, even a casual reading of the book of acts shows the phenomenal growth of christianity during the time of the apostles.

in colossians ch1 paul even makes the comment that the good news had at that point been preached to all creation that was under heaven.. in 64 c.e, there were so many christians in rome already that nero felt he could easily blame them for the destructive fire which had swept through the city.

WireRider

I am truly shocked at the ignorance and lies. NO JW or WT will ever be part of the 144,000, Ever.

It has nothing to do with 1935, or any such "queue" to be filled.

It has NEVER been "symbolic" in any form or nature AT ALL. It is spelled out. NO JW - NO WT.

Few thing's are ever spelled out so specifically in the Bible as the 144. It very specifically says 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL. Period. Period.

Show of hands - how many JW/WT are Jewish, decendants of the 12 tribes of Israel, or follow the faith of Israel?

How can someone follow the worlds of the Bible to such extremes, and oddly force people into vague interpretations, flat out refuse very specifically spelled out "12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel?"

In the book of Revelations, and in many places, has VERY specific orders for the JW/WT. The false prophets shall be cast into the lake of fire. The false prophets must die. A false prophet is biblically describe as those that claim to speak for God, or in the name of God, and those things do not come to pass - those false prophets must die.

The JW/WT is the false prophet of Revelations and has lied lied lied about the end of the world so many fake times. Every one was a money making fundraising drive. Rutherford needed a new mansion in CA. They still do it. I think we can agree how Jesus felt about money changes earning profits in "my house" in Jerusalem. The WT is nothing more than the money changers - the ambulance chasers - following and exploiting religion for profit.

There will NEVER be a JW/WT in the 144 unless they are Jewish or descendants of Israel.

21

What's with all the pyramids??

by Crazyguy in

the number of pyramids in the world just keep going up and up.

an egyptoligist thinks using satellite scanning technology he has found the remnants of another 17 pyramids in the egypt.

in central and south american they keep finding more pyramids and in java a couple of years ago they surmised that the riuns their was actually a step pyramid possible the oldest in the world.

WireRider

Truthseeker: I'm not sure I follow.

21

What's with all the pyramids??

by Crazyguy in

the number of pyramids in the world just keep going up and up.

an egyptoligist thinks using satellite scanning technology he has found the remnants of another 17 pyramids in the egypt.

in central and south american they keep finding more pyramids and in java a couple of years ago they surmised that the riuns their was actually a step pyramid possible the oldest in the world.

WireRider

A lot of factors there.

1) Why were they built? They aren't a house or office building. They are very large for what and for who?

2) The precision of the stone blocks is unfathomable at that age of our understanding of human development. World class construction companies have said they would not even attempt to create such a building today. Some sites with 1000 ton blocks. And for what/who? How did they achieve such precision with out our modern day machines???

3) Why did cultures all over the world independently develop such similarities with now way to communication with each other at all? No, it was not a planet wide pyramid competitions - you'd think so, but no.

It really goes beyond they all did that own their own. There is a true black-out period around 0 BC/AD or BCE/CE where science and technology had a complete reset and started from scratch. Today no one can prove what the great pyramid is or how it was built. Sumerians documented Pluto 10,000 years ago - we just found it about 1930ish. How is it explained?

30

"The likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed"

by nicolaou in

presidential hopeful ben carson of course.

this isn't another gun control debate, i just thought it might be fun to have a topic where we can dump all the hysterical quotes from the candidates.. it's a deep and plentiful mine folks!

.

WireRider

If every witness in Germany had voted against the Nazi party, it's very unlikely Hitler would have ever been able to accomplish what he did.

How many witnesses were in Nazi Germany? Rutherford was sending Hitler fan mail.

In an attempt to appease Hitler, Rutherford instigated a Declaration of Facts and sent a Letter to Hitler discussing the Watchtower's support of the Nazi regime.

21

What's with all the pyramids??

by Crazyguy in

the number of pyramids in the world just keep going up and up.

an egyptoligist thinks using satellite scanning technology he has found the remnants of another 17 pyramids in the egypt.

in central and south american they keep finding more pyramids and in java a couple of years ago they surmised that the riuns their was actually a step pyramid possible the oldest in the world.

WireRider

That's the $10,000 question.

Plus a buried pyramid in Scotland. There are hills in China that when seen from the air are square as if they hid them under dirt - but people, especially foreigners, are forbidden to go there. Try Angkor Wat in Cambodia. Egypt. Mexico. South America. Pumapunku in Bolivia. All cultures that would have no way to communicate, or travel, with each other have distinct similarities. Some uncovered ruins in Sumeria about 10,000 years old that have tablets of our solar system, including all proportionately sized planets in correct orbits. Even Pluto - that we didn't discover until about 1930.

Look at the Giza Plateau, the pyramids are not quite in a straight line - a little bent, when the building and orientations are so exacting. It matches the same exactly with the layout of Teotihuacan in Mexico - a little bent, exactly the same way.

Try watching "Ancient Aliens". I think you can google it for reruns. Really fascinating stuff. Good scenery. But I would not put too much stock in their conclusions - they have been debunked a lot for over reaching, and some lies. Still interesting to see - draw your own conclusions.

26

WT opinion about anointed Christians

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

jesus said "look to the fruits" of real christians.. it is unbelievable that the wt says that new anointed christians are merely false.

how can humans decide who is anointed and who's not?.

how can the watchtower society say these unchristian statements?

WireRider

I never under stood that. The Bible very clearly spells it out. 144,000. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. Are there a lot of Israel descendants, or Jews, in the WT/JW? The Bible says it very clearly.

I don't recall it saying from any particular religion - just a very specific group by race and region. Why did Russell claim it just means a bunch of people? Can someone explain that to me?

28

Candace Conti

by Pubsinger in

so we know that wt settled out of court for an undisclosed sum and that presumably there was a 'gagging order' attached to the settlement.. not having really thought about what a 'confidentiality clause' meant before, i assumed in the past that it meant that you weren't allowed to disclose the amount of the settlement or any details about it.

but from the total and absolute silence once the settlement was made, i can only assume that it is a total gagging order.. how can the courts allow such a restriction to be put on a victim?

protecting the abusers and allowing the institution to cover up the lengths they go to to avoid admitting their guilt?

WireRider

She did win. But the appeal already reduced the award significantly. This case was obviously still in appeal litigation. The WT could draw it out for years. Or there was no need for a settlement.

I think it can be a real blueprint for future cases.

28

Candace Conti

by Pubsinger in

so we know that wt settled out of court for an undisclosed sum and that presumably there was a 'gagging order' attached to the settlement.. not having really thought about what a 'confidentiality clause' meant before, i assumed in the past that it meant that you weren't allowed to disclose the amount of the settlement or any details about it.

but from the total and absolute silence once the settlement was made, i can only assume that it is a total gagging order.. how can the courts allow such a restriction to be put on a victim?

protecting the abusers and allowing the institution to cover up the lengths they go to to avoid admitting their guilt?

WireRider

It's really too much to ask of anyone. (with a lot of legal advice and planning) If it were me, I would leak enough of the settlement details, until it pisses off the WT. Wait until they take me to court. Put the whole case and settlement online. The WT would have to provide a copy of the settlement to the Judge as evidence. Lawyers get to question both sides - now into public record.

Find a way to loose/hide the settlement money. I would claim to have put it all into KH box donations. I guess they don't keep track. Ha - subpena all their accounting records to prove it.

If I loose and I am ordered to repay the money - file for bankruptcy. Off the hook. (this is the reverse of how little people can get back at big corps).

Wait for the dust settle while I write a book about the whole experience. Sexual abuses. The cult. Include all the public records and transcripts and a full copy of the settlement agreement.

They can't take you to court for the same thing twice as it has already been ruled upon.

Retire on the royalties.

I would be pleased to see a complete expose book in my local book store. Probably a lot of sales to the Protestant and Catholic too, perhaps just out of curiosity. It would be great exposure.

Non-disclosure court settlements invariably start "with no admission of guilt ... we will payout 5 million" Uh huh. By the WT paying out, it validates the whole case.

28

Candace Conti

by Pubsinger in

so we know that wt settled out of court for an undisclosed sum and that presumably there was a 'gagging order' attached to the settlement.. not having really thought about what a 'confidentiality clause' meant before, i assumed in the past that it meant that you weren't allowed to disclose the amount of the settlement or any details about it.

but from the total and absolute silence once the settlement was made, i can only assume that it is a total gagging order.. how can the courts allow such a restriction to be put on a victim?

protecting the abusers and allowing the institution to cover up the lengths they go to to avoid admitting their guilt?

WireRider

The simple answer: They can't.

The courts are by definition, and necessity, have to be impartial. They can not support either side.

What probably happened is that her lawyer met with their lawyers. They hashed out an offer. Her lawyers, probably deep in the red, realistically, advised her to take the offer or this can go on buried in paperwork for years - if any settlement at all, ever. She was probably going to have to appear in court every couple of weeks for years. I've been there. It is very personally/emotional exhausting. They count on that too.

They both agreed to terms. They write a one page court order mutually requesting that the case be dismissed. Judge asks if they both agree - if yes, it is over in the court. Nothing that the judge or courts can do about it. The court never even gets a copy of the settlement documents.

The WT is well aware that everything in court is a matter of public record. All transcripts, and filed papers, can be requested by a FOIA (freedom of information act) request by anyone. They did not want more in the records - and her shut up.. So they probably paid extra to silence the case.

It happens everyday. Individuals vs. big insurance companies. Pay a little extra "hush" money - hide all the details so they don't look bad, and no one can use the case in the future cases. Sworn statements in a court case can be used as evidence in other cases. Big technology companies steel patents from small ones because they have more money and can outlast small companies.

Once two parties reach a settlement they request to drop the cases. The settlement can really include anything. Most Judges know what's going on, but there is nothing they can do about it.

I hate it too. But you can reliably say that she obviously was paid off to sweep it under the rug.