just spent 8 hours in a 1 day elders school last weekend.
clarification given: "moving forward any elder, ms, or pioneer who themselves or someone under their roof enrolls in higher education, may no longer qualify for privileges in the congregation.
their qualifications will have to be reviewed by their boe.".
Brian J,
Did they "clarify" what they mean by "higher education"? Is it four years of college? Two years? Is there a difference between going to a technical college or a liberal arts college? Will this be applied evenly across all states and countries? I have seen much back and forth on this issue and much talking out of both sides of there mouth.
many people point to the irrationality in the depiction of god by the religions and their scriptures, hence jump into the bottomless pit of atheism.
in either camp, god is not a factor because religion is only a means that misrepresents god, hence religionists themselves are atheists (literally, those who live without god).
it is like saying there exists no earth because you found out your friend who taught earth is flat is wrong; or it is like saying mathematics itself is wrong because you found out your mathematics teacher made a mistake.
Venus,
I like that you pose questions like this. I think it makes people think.
Personally, I like the way Joseph Campbell talks about how different views of God are like "masks". We have many, many religions and doctrines. Also, many personal views about what/who God is. Obviously they cannot all be right. (People make their biggest mistakes fighting over their views on this). They are simply man's attempt to describe "the ground of being". They point to which is greater than ourselves. The reality of God is much grander than whatever we can imagine. Can we prove God exists in a tangible way? In a way that involves touching and feeling? No, of course not. Does that mean an immaterial God does not exist? I don't think so. Can we experience God? I believe we can.
Can math be a pointer to a "great mind"? I believe it can and does.
watchtower writings used to have some meat to them.
they have been increasingly watered down and simplified.
i think we all recognize that.
Watchtower writings used to have some meat to them. They have been increasingly watered down and simplified. I think we all recognize that. So much so that the writings of the Watchtower are not much help at all because they are simply superficial and mostly concerned with outside appearances.
I have been 'out of the Watchtower' for several years now and therefore have had the chance to read and study different religions and writings in Christianity itself. I am increasingly amazed at how much better material there is out there. There really has been well thought out and well written material on Christian belief and living over the centuries.
As far as modern Christian writers who would you recommend? I myself will list several writers I have found helpful. Not to preach to anyone but to let those who may be searching know there are alternatives available that can be helpful. Several of these were in fact recommended to me from a former JW who frequented this site years ago.
Keith Ward
Dallas Willard
John Polkinghorne
Francis Collins
Marcus Borg
N.T. Wright
Alvin Platinga
J.P. Moreland
Adam Hamilton
I probably have forgotten some. In addition I highly recommend a book by Jeffrey Swartz entitled 'You Are Not Your Brain'.
here is a fascinating subject.
according to the bible , one of adam's first assignments was to name all the animals including the sea creatures and dinosaurs of course.
we don't know how long this took but, as all witnesses know, the time period is crucial in working out the timing of armageddon).
Yeah.... I saw 'The Land of the Lost'. Not so harmonious.
dear brothers and sisters,.
considering the end is so near at hand we thought it important for to reiterate that it's absolutely impossible to prove god's "one true organisation" wrong.
there is nothing on heaven or earth that could ever be shown to be false or incorrect in our entire .
I completely agree. It doesn't matter what anyone says to the 'true believers'. They will believe what they believe because they choose to believe. We can support and supply information to those who are searching for true answers. That is all.
i heard many times when i was a witness how much "learning the truth" helped people.
many have been said to have become much better people.
addictions were given up.
A few quotes from one person I knew who was Disfellowshipped three times but still went back to the organization because he felt "Jehovah was still in charge" (somehow) told me 'anyone can read you a scripture'. 'when has an elder ever given you a straight answer?', and 'Jehovah gets rid of these elders'.
i heard many times when i was a witness how much "learning the truth" helped people.
many have been said to have become much better people.
addictions were given up.
Thanks for the comments. I have to say, on the flip side I knew several people for whom I learned were basically unchanged by "learning the truth". They were already good people before they joined.
I also knew several who went back to their addictions or developed addictions while JW's. This includes myself. I knew of several who were disfellowshipped at least three times. In private conversations with them I realized they were not helped one iota by the elders. They simply didn't have any answers. This is when I realized I wouldn't get any help myself from the elders either. In fact, the elders pretty much told me it was up to me to figure it out. So I did, without their help.
Some of the basics of JW life were helpful of course but other positive pursuits including less controlling religion could have done that. The biggest help to me was Pscychology, learning how the brain works. Spiritual work, meditation and prayer.
i know this question has popped up from time to time but i really would like to know how you guys, those that no longer believe, came to that conclusion?
was it the wts and all its crap?
was it something you read?
I was about to reply to this thread until I saw what a chaotic bunch of lunacy it became. Oh well.
i heard many times when i was a witness how much "learning the truth" helped people.
many have been said to have become much better people.
addictions were given up.
I heard many times when I was a witness how much "learning the truth" helped people. Many have been said to have become much better people. Addictions were given up. Anger subsided. Hippies became cleaned up better dressed people (apparently). These were the kinds of things I was told over and over again when I was growing up in JW land. Somehow, it sounded like to me anyway, just knowing "the truth" was all that was needed to give up smoking and the like.
How much real help was any of this to people in your experience?
granted, i'm a pimo status, so i normally just play on my cell phone and ignore everything during meetings and assemblies.
but at the assembly this past weekend, my ears were pricked for two experiences of two sisters dedicating themselves to pioneering.
this was probably because i was extremely freaked out by both of them.
Interesting Cimarrona. I hadn't really ever thought about how the old language is still in affect. It would probably be smart of them to update some of those terms. Maybe bring back 'colporteur'? Nevermind.
