Gingerbread, profound.
Socrateswannabe
JoinedPosts by Socrateswannabe
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62
Should all elders be painted with the same brush?
by Socrateswannabe inan hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.
there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.
one poster said he/she hates all elders.
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62
Should all elders be painted with the same brush?
by Socrateswannabe inan hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.
there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.
one poster said he/she hates all elders.
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Socrateswannabe
Jean-Luc, thank you for your good wishes and you are right. The R&F have no idea that the Org is no different from any other corporation. There is backbiting, infighting, powergrabbing and all other manner of shenannigans that are disguesting and off-putting to anyone with a conscience. There are consequences to staying in and their are consequences to fading out. The JW religion makes it difficult on all of us.
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62
Should all elders be painted with the same brush?
by Socrateswannabe inan hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.
there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.
one poster said he/she hates all elders.
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Socrateswannabe
Cantleave: If you say so, but there are probably thousands of people who are free to speak and associate with their families and friends today because an enlightened elder served on their judicial committee and refused to DF. Just a thought.
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Should all elders be painted with the same brush?
by Socrateswannabe inan hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.
there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.
one poster said he/she hates all elders.
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Socrateswannabe
An hour or two ago, I was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to JWN. There was some criticism aimed at the OP and I understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special. One poster said he/she hates all elders. I am an elder. That may put me into the hated minority by some on this board. I was going to post my side of the story on the original topic, but by the time I wrote this, copied and was ready to paste it into the original thread, it is gone. I don't know if it was removed or if I'm just too stupid to find it again. So I'm starting my own topic about it. If you disagree, let me have it. I'm a big boy and I think I can take it, but at least read what I have to say, please, so that you'll have another side of the story to consider.
There are legitimate reasons to dislike and disrespect some individuals, including many of the elders. Some of them are ambitious, autocratic, and ignorant; but not all. Some are sincere (sincerely wrong but sincere). Others have woken up but for some reason or another can't get out or at least hope to do some good from the "inside". If you are a male JW, the peer pressure is enormous to "reach out", and it is very hard to resist being the tin can that gets kicked down that road toward eldership.
My wife and kids were Witnesses before I became one. They believed (and still do) that this is the truth, and so I experienced gentle persuasion from them to "taste and see that Jehovah is good". I did it for them. I had reservations from the start, but it made them so happy for me to study and to attend meetings. I thought, what's the harm? Once you show a little interest, however, then the congregation takes over. There is more gentle persuasion at first, love-bombing, and finally guilt tripping. Once I began attending meetings, my book study conductor (I came in when we still had that arrangement) suggested to me that I begin commenting by reading a scripture at the book study-that's all I had to do. So I did it. Of course he wasn't satisfied with that for long and he began working on me to make actual comments at the book study. Okay, sure. That led to encouragement to join the School, comment at the larger congregation meetings, and qualify to become an unbaptized publisher. The organization is designed so that unless you're downright hostile or seem to be a troublemaker, you're going to "progress". There is no such thing as standing still in "Jehovah's organization". It's designed that way, as are all cults. So unless you're willing to forcefully resist, you find yourself baptized, as I did, although I still had reservations about this being God's organization or even remotely resembling the truth. In my case, again, I wanted to please not only my new friends, but most importantly my wife and kids.
If you are a baptized man within the organization and you appear that you will not challenge the elder body and you are willing to work, you're quickly offered small privileges. Carrying the roving mikes during the meetings, assisting the magazine or literature servant, acting as an attendant, sound room guy, whatever. These are innocuous little responsibilities. Likely though the elders will begin to talk with you about "reaching out". In my case I listened politely but had no intention of doing anything beyond the basics. But just show any consistency and even a modicum of talent at anything, and the next thing you know, five minutes before the mid-week meeting starts, you find yourself in one of the back rooms with two elders, they telling you that you have been appointed as a ministerial servant, and is there any reason why you can't accept the privilege. There is no advance warning. And it is presented to you as though you have to make an instant decision. They need to know "now"--in the next couple of minutes, because it is going to be announced tonight. I guess a few resist or ask for more time to think about it, but most people, like me, succumb to the pressure and agree to the assignment.
Now you're giving service meeting parts and have other extended privileges. Once again, if you do your job even moderately well, you're on the short list for elder. The naïve ones, like me, have no idea the pressure exerted on the elder body to use the pool of ministerial servants as an "elder mill". Having served as an elder now for a number of years, I can tell you that when the CO arrives for his semi-annual visit, he looks down upon the elder body which cannot produce at least one candidate for consideration for recommendation for eldership. The further you're kicked up the organizational ladder and the longer you stay in the Org, the worse the peer pressure gets. So again unless you're weird or seem like a troublemaker, within a reasonable time you find yourself in the back room again, this time being informed that you've been appointed as an elder, and is there any reason why you can't accept yet another privilege of service.
I know this has been a long post and I apologize for its length. But my (wordy) point is; many of us just get swept downstream with the current. That's the way cults work. Eldership, Bethel, missionary work, and other "privileges" are constantly pushed on those who are seen as capable brothers. Sisters get the same pressure, to pioneer or participate in the few other forms of extended service that is open to them in this "good ole boy" organization. Many of us did not seek the position we are in today. I know in my case, I could have put the brakes on it at any time. I could put the brakes on it now; I could step down, I could renounce my faith, but I'm not going to do that. I love my wife and kids and it would be a crushing blow for me, the guy who finally came and around and became their longed-for spiritual head, to revert to the lowest of the low, a quitter or even worse in my family's eyes, an apostate.
I struggle with this. I am not happy with my lot in life. I don't want to be an elder. I don't even want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. But I choose to stay. How can I make the best of it? I genuinely try to help "the flock". The soothing balm that I apply to the wounded doesn't always come from the bible. I read many more "secular" works than I do WTS publications. I have tried to learn how to help people help themselves, rather than rely on a nebulous sky-dad to fix all of their problems or at least to help them cope. I have managed (it isn't easy) to leave out the negative from my meeting parts and public talks. I have even managed to skew a few assembly parts toward the positive points in the outline, while conveniently ignoring any of the condemnatory parts (they no longer make you practice assembly parts before the CO and DO before the event, so they really have no idea what you're going to say when you get up there and most of them are half-listening when you're giving the part anyway). I consistently lobby for "mercy" in any judicial committee that I am involved in. By the way, I never volunteer for judicial committees. If they are thrust upon me I will take the assignment but I think the brothers know they will end up with a split decision or a merciful end to the process, because I'm just not going to vote to DF anyone. Fortunately, the information in the "Flock" book is so contradictory and murky, that you could use portions of it to excuse Judas Iscariot if given the chance.
None of this completely sooths my conscience. Yes, I am still held up as a visible representative of an organization that can and often does ruin people's lives and takes away their dignity. I try to be different but I am still part of the problem since I do not renounce it. I think of the Nazis in the Nuremburg trials. Sometimes I feel like one of those guys. But I wanted to let you know that not all of us chose this lot, not all of us agree with what comes from the FDS, not all of us are spiritual zombies, and some of us long to be free, as many of you are. If I can get my family to learn TTATT without losing their love and respect, I hope one day to join you.
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To the many generous intellects on this forum
by Socrateswannabe inyou so smart.. me dumb.. me want to be like you.. how?.
seriously, i would like to tip my hat to those of you who entertain and educate me every day on this forum.
i am grateful that you are willing to share what you know, unstintingly.
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Socrateswannabe
Glander, you know what they say about humility. The moment you think you've achieved it...LOL
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To the many generous intellects on this forum
by Socrateswannabe inyou so smart.. me dumb.. me want to be like you.. how?.
seriously, i would like to tip my hat to those of you who entertain and educate me every day on this forum.
i am grateful that you are willing to share what you know, unstintingly.
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Socrateswannabe
Mouthy that's pretty funny. Seems to me you have intellect to spare. Keep on keepin' on!
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To the many generous intellects on this forum
by Socrateswannabe inyou so smart.. me dumb.. me want to be like you.. how?.
seriously, i would like to tip my hat to those of you who entertain and educate me every day on this forum.
i am grateful that you are willing to share what you know, unstintingly.
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Socrateswannabe
You so smart.
Me dumb.
Me want to be like you.
How?
Seriously, I would like to tip my hat to those of you who entertain and educate me every day on this forum. I am grateful that you are willing to share what you know, unstintingly. You know who you are. Thank you.
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How many of you followed the WTS direction on education years ago and have been screwed by it?
by Julia Orwell ini'm really interested in this question because i've heard for years that if you forgo further education and go pioneering, when you have a family down the track you will get a good job because jehovah will provide for you because you pioneered.
as long as i was a kool-aid drinker, even then, i thought, "how does pioneering pay your bills?
surely education should come first.
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Socrateswannabe
I grew up in the 1960s and in the area I lived in, higher education wasn't discouraged by the JWs, it was absolutely forbidden and almost unheard of. With coaching from my naive parents, I treated my high school guidance counselor as the devil incarnate. I graduated public school with as little learning as was possible. The JWs in my area got a huge boost to their ridiculous anti-education thinking, when the one guy who bucked the trend and actually received a university education, promptly left the "truth" after he graduated. See, I told you so, they clucked.
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If there is a God why didn't he sign our DNA
by scotoma intodays scientists can and do insert their trademark into dna.. why couldn't jehovah anticipate scientists learning this technique and stumbling across a strand that says "human by yhwh"?.
that would have answered a lot of questions.. he could have even included a model number human2.0.
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Socrateswannabe
Wow, I could have typed all day and never came close to putting things as succinctly and plainly as Cofty's post #7380, above. I may print that out and frame it.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-17-2013 WT Study (TEMP RESIDENTS)
by blondie inunited nations http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm.
6. in what sense can jehovahs witnesses be.
residents, and of what?.
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Socrateswannabe
Thanks Blondie, for your excellent comments, which are always of a much higher quality than the material you are commenting on. I thought it was interesting that on page 20, the left portion of the photo that is captioned, "We are not striving to save Satan's world", shows two people with Anonymous masks. I'm just wondering if this is an "in your face" to Anonymous, or maybe the photo was set up long before Anonymous made their threats to the WTS.