Posts by JWB

49

Reinstatement Hearing Secretly Recorded and on JWStruggle

by RayPublisher in

okay people i have a new video that some of you may be interested in- i believe it is the only one of its kind online.

three elders meet with a young female that knows ttatt and is trying to get back into the jws for family reasons.

the audio also includes the three elders disagreeing and deliberating after she is dismissed from the room and then when they call her back in.

JWB

schnare, I also am having problems both with the video link and the transcript link. JWStruggle, can you please help?

1

Combatting Cult Phobias

by JWB in

combatting cult phobias.

"when a person appreciates that life is a sacred gift from god, he will treasure each day of life and view being alive as a precious privilege.

he will be moved to use his life in harmony with jehovah's will.--rev.

COMBATTING CULT PHOBIAS

"When a person appreciates that life is a sacred gift from God, he will treasure each day of life and view being alive as a precious privilege. He will be moved to use his life in harmony with Jehovah's will.--Rev. 4:11. It is obvious that most people do not view life in that way. They do not understand how human life began, nor do they appreciate God's undeserved kindness that offers eternal life. That is why they follow a course of selfishness that results in no real happiness to them and brings no lasting benefit to others. Every day, you are confronted with the world's view of life. It is projected in what you see and hear in news reports, entertainment, and other areas of life. By treasuring God's gift of life, you are able to reject the world's view. You also have the privilege of helping others to appreciate that life is indeed a marvelous gift of God." - Unit 12(a) 'Treasuring God's Gift of Life', page 121, of the Watch Tower Society's Pioneer School book 'Shining as Illuminators in the World' (2010 printing).

On page 124 of 'Shining as Illuminators in the World', under the title 'Avoid Bloodguilt', a number of scriptures are given as making one 'bloodguilty' (comments after the scriptures are mine):

Ex 20:13 [murder;] 1 Sam 31:4 [suicide;] Ex 21 22-25 [injury to unborn child;] Deut 22:8 [injury caused through neglect of safety measures;] Ezek 33:8 [bloodguilt specifically to be attributed to Ezekiel if he did not warn the wicked;] Acts 20:26,27 [bloodguilt specifically to be attributed to Paul if he, as an Apostle (or 'sent forth one') did not warn the wicked;] Acts 15:20 [eating/drinking of blood from once living creatures;] Rev 17:8 [blood shed as a result of religious intolerance;] Rev 18:2-4 [reprehensibility via association with those who are bloodguilty].

After this comes the subheading 'Show That You Treasure Life by Using Yours in God's Service'. Thus huge emotional pressure is brought to bear on the pioneer. The message is that unless you 'have plenty to do in the work of the Lord [read Watch Tower Society]' you could be bloodguilty. Being 'bloodguilty' will of course mean only one thing at Armageddon.

This made me think of what Steven Hassan calls 'Cult Phobias'. In his new book 'Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs' he devotes a whole chapter to this problem. Here are a few extracts from that chapter:

"In my experience as a cult member, there were specific incidents where fears were either installed or activated by my [Unification Church] recruiters. During my initial three-day workshop, cult leaders implanted the fear that I couldn't trust my own thinking capabilities due to unseen negative spiritual forces (Satan) that were supposedly affecting my mind and spirit. I had never believed in Satan or any such evil metaphysical entity but, by the end of three days, part of me (the nascent cult self) had come to fear these diabolical forces."

"During recruitment and indoctrination, phobias of the outside world and of the pre-cult self are methodically implanted, nurtured, and employed. The critical faculties that would allow a non-phobic person to analyze the claims of the leader and the doctrine are short-circuited. Independent thinking or action is precluded. Fear prevails over logic."

"The use of stories and testimonials. Cult leaders may use stories about defectors to reinforce phobias: (Do you remember Alice M? She left the group last month and we just got word that she hung herself. See what happens when you leave the protection of the Almighty?) These stories are usually fabrications. Sometimes, they are partly true (the person did leave the group). Former members who return to the group may be asked to speak about the sin, greed, or suffering they encountered in the outside world. They describe how they were mugged, raped, plagued by terrifying nightmares, or suffered unrelenting migraine headaches until they came back to 'God's family.' The more horribly graphic, the more effective the story."

He puts these cult phobias under the four main headings of 'Physical health', 'Psychological health', 'Spiritual life' and 'Social life'. These phobias are concerned with what would/could happen if the cult member left the group. Here are a few things appearing on those lists [with my comments in brackets]:

Die painfully [at Armageddon], contract incurable sexually transmitted diseases, never be happy, suffer for the rest of one's life, become unspiritual or unbalanced ['mentally diseased'], lose one's relationship with God, lose one's chance of redemption/salvation, be judged unworthy when Armageddon takes place, lose the safety and security of the group, be unloved, be rejected by family and friends [shunning], never speak to children or grandchildren again, be persecuted by evil agents [Satan and his demons].

I highly recommend Mr Hassan's book which is an updated and revised version of the book he released in the year 2000 called 'Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves'.

67

ANOTHER DISHONEST QUOTE FROM CHRIST'S BROTHERS!

by DATA-DOG in

they " evidently " have not learned their lesson.

here we go.. wt march 15th 2013. honor jehovah's great name.

1) by and large, christendom's churches have distanced themselves from god's name.

JWB

AndDontCallMeShirley: "Ironically, god's self-proclaimed named people (Jehovah's Witnesses) themselves did not carry god's name for the first 50+ years of their existence!! They were IBSA for five decades, not Jehovah's Witnesses."

So true, in fact it was the 'great I AM', Joseph Rutherford who came up with that name and of course the concept of 'organization'. I think it would be more appropriate to call the WTS "Joe's Organization".

67

ANOTHER DISHONEST QUOTE FROM CHRIST'S BROTHERS!

by DATA-DOG in

they " evidently " have not learned their lesson.

here we go.. wt march 15th 2013. honor jehovah's great name.

1) by and large, christendom's churches have distanced themselves from god's name.

JWB

DATA-DOG, thanks for the details. One thing I've noticed about the WTS publications is they don't always give proper references to where the quotes they use come from. I think this is a very bad practice. Intentional maybe?!

37

Are you really an Apostate, according to the WT ?

by Phizzy in

jw
friends

perusing the coverage of the 2013 dc spewings about apostates, the wt claims that apostates are "liars" and speak "twisted things".

this is their definition of apostates.. now, the reality is that sites such as paul's excellent jwfacts.com, books like coc and isocf, by ray franz, the works of olaf jonsson, penton and others, all write what is true !.

we are careful on here to present that which is true, at least i hope we are !.

JWB

Oubliette: "Jesus was an apostate"

Well, he did teach things "contrary to Bible truth as taught by the Pharisees". Would that qualify him? And weren't the apostles accused of teaching an apostacy from Moses?

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Apostacy is "deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses." Well, that's a lie! Where in the Bible does it say that? Actually did anyone notice that it is really what is taught as truth by the Governing Body?

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Apostates, according to the WTS, "quietly bring in destructive sects". Unfortunately for them, there are hardly any people who try to get into congregations to do this. I suppose 'apostates' must be on the decline.

121

Symposium: Beware of Apostates! - 'God's Word is Truth!' District Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses 2013 - not on JW.ORG

by mindnumbed in

symposium: beware of apostates!.

satanhuman apostates also of interest ..... the truth brings "not peace, but a sword" .

JWB

"I would appreciate the whole convention also! thank you, Maralee"

Maralee, in the words of that famous tennis player John McEnroe, "You cannot be serious!"

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Pistoff, great points. You know I can't help but think the organization helps to institutionalize people. What I mean is that JWs become so dependant upon the WTS that they can't live without it. So if the JWs want to use illustrations about people with dependancy problems, how about they go and take a look in the mirror?

17

Some thoughts on Mark 13

by JWB in

some thoughts on mark 13. .

i decided to look again at the so-called 'signs of the times' from the perspective of mark's gospel.

chapter 13 sets the scene.

JWB

Bobcat, a very interesting post you made in the other thread. My research these days is without the need to prove some religious belief. On this particular subject, my intention is to look at what Jesus is said to have spoken and what the early Christians expected to happen in their lifetime. Whether or not those expectations were met in some way or another is not an issue to me. What I mean is that I have no religious pre-supposition to try to force the scriptures to uphold a cherished belief. It is my understanding from what the Christian scriptures say in general that the disciples were in great anticipation of the the 'return' of Jesus.

For example, we know that Jesus said concerning 'the end', that "even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door." At James 5:9, the writer counsels first century Christians: "Do not complain brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."

17

Some thoughts on Mark 13

by JWB in

some thoughts on mark 13. .

i decided to look again at the so-called 'signs of the times' from the perspective of mark's gospel.

chapter 13 sets the scene.

JWB

Bobcat, I've followed your link and will be reading it with interest.

17

Some thoughts on Mark 13

by JWB in

some thoughts on mark 13. .

i decided to look again at the so-called 'signs of the times' from the perspective of mark's gospel.

chapter 13 sets the scene.

JWB

Some further notes:

The 'seven times of Daniel' has no bearing on the prophecies of Jesus, because they were fulfilled in Nebuchadnezzar. Any 'second fulfillment' is purely a speculative extra-biblical doctrine.

"But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes." - Matthew 10:23 (NASB)

Mark 13:24-27, 29-30:

"But in those days, after the tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT. AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven." "Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

Ezekiel 32:7-8 (NASB), concerning Egypt:

"'And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I WILL COVER THE SUN WITH A CLOUD, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you, and will set darkness on your land,' Declares the Lord God."

In Isaiah 13:9-11 (NASB), concerning the laying to waste of Babylon:

"Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, cruel, with fury and burning anger, to make the land a desolation; and He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not flash forth their light; THE SUN WILL BE DARK WHEN IT RISES AND THE MOON WILL NOT SHED ITS LIGHT. Thus I will punish the world for its evil and the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud and abase the haughtiness of the ruthless."

Extract from Barnes Notes on verse 10:

"This verse cannot be understood literally, but is a metaphorical representation of the calamities that were coming upon Babylon. The meaning of the figure evidently is, that those calamiities would be such as would be appropriately denoted by the sudden extinguishment of the stars, the sun, and the moon. As nothing would tend more to anarchy, distress, and ruin, than thus to have all the lights of heaven suddenly and forever quenched, this was an apt and forcible representation of the awful calamities that were coming upon the people. Darkness and night, in the Scriptures, are often the emblem of calamity and distress (see the note at Matthew 24:29). The revolutions and destructions of kingdoms and nations are often represented in the Scriptures under this image."

Extract from Barnes Notes on verse 11:

"By the 'world' here is evidently meant the Babylonian empire, in the same way as 'all the world' in Luke 2:1, means Judea; and in Acts 11:28, means the Roman empire. Babylonia, or Chaldea, was the most mighty empire then on earth, and might be said to comprehend the whole world."

17

Some thoughts on Mark 13

by JWB in

some thoughts on mark 13. .

i decided to look again at the so-called 'signs of the times' from the perspective of mark's gospel.

chapter 13 sets the scene.

JWB

Sorry, I've only just come back to look at this thread and wasn't aware of some of the more recent posts.

A note on Larsinger58's comment: "Luke confirms that the destruction of Jerusalem would occur 'before' the signs of his presence and 2nd coming."

Verse 20 of Luke 21 says, "Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near."

So, the "before all these things" refers to the things that would happen before the "desolating of her [Jerusalem]" which would by then have "drawn near". I disagree that they were "asking about Christ's presence as well as when the destruction of Jerusalem would take place".

The reason for choosing to look at Mark's account is because he does not mention any "presence" by which might seem to extend the events prophesied beyond the fall of Jerusalem. In Mark, the answer to Jesus' statements concerning the city, revolve around that and that alone, as no other subject comes into view. This being the case, then all "signs" spoken of by him must relate only to the fall of Jerusalem, because this was the subject under discussion.

In Luke, Jesus talks about the persecution that would come upon his first century followers before the end of the (Jewish) "the system of things". That he was was addressing his words to those disciples he was speaking to is evident from his use of the plural pronoun 'you'. The events he spoke about would affect them personally. The book of Acts gives examples of persecution of Jesus' disciples, before the 'signs' warning of the approach of the fall of Jerusalem.