ScenicViewer, thanks for posting those images. Thanks also to NeverKnew for taking all that time in typing out the relevant text from the Convention Report.
PS: ScenicViewer, having the images available to view here is very helpful!
Posts by JWB
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33What Proof Is There That Rutherford Was Responsible For The Pyramid Monument Near CTR's Grave?
by JWB inwhat proof is there that rutherford was responsible for the pyramid monument near ctr's grave?.
"charles taze russell died in 1916, the pyramid marker was installed in 1921 (5 years after his death), and the the masonic temple was built in the mid 1990s, these items have nothing to do with pastor russell's grave.
the masonic temple is not even on the cemetery grounds, it is a different property altogether.
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33
What Proof Is There That Rutherford Was Responsible For The Pyramid Monument Near CTR's Grave?
by JWB inwhat proof is there that rutherford was responsible for the pyramid monument near ctr's grave?.
"charles taze russell died in 1916, the pyramid marker was installed in 1921 (5 years after his death), and the the masonic temple was built in the mid 1990s, these items have nothing to do with pastor russell's grave.
the masonic temple is not even on the cemetery grounds, it is a different property altogether.
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JWB
So, let's see if I've got this right! According to the convention report, the pyramid monument had been "designed by Brother Bohnet, and accepted by Brother Russell as the most fitting emblem for an enduring monument on the Society's burial space", but the construction for it was delayed for five years due to problems in "securing of the rock material". CTR died at the end of 1916 and the convention program came out at the beginning of 1919. Five years prior to 1919 brings us to 1914. Therefore, CTR must have known about and approved the proposed pyramid shaped monument designed by Bohnet at about that time. Rutherford, as president of the WTS, was simply facilitating what had already been arranged five years earlier by CTR.
Thanks again to NeverKnew for bringing the 1919 Convention Report to my attention.
An e-format copy of the convention report can be obtained here:
archive.org/download/1919BibleStudentConventionReport/1919SouvenirReportColor.pdf -
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What Proof Is There That Rutherford Was Responsible For The Pyramid Monument Near CTR's Grave?
by JWB inwhat proof is there that rutherford was responsible for the pyramid monument near ctr's grave?.
"charles taze russell died in 1916, the pyramid marker was installed in 1921 (5 years after his death), and the the masonic temple was built in the mid 1990s, these items have nothing to do with pastor russell's grave.
the masonic temple is not even on the cemetery grounds, it is a different property altogether.
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JWB
NeverKnew, I'm signing off now, but thanks very much for your info which I've made a copy of and will be reading later!
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131
Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books
by Recovery ini have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of ray franz in my short stay on this board.
apparently these are all the all-powerful, wt crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave jw's and become ruthless opposers of god's people.
we can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves jehovah's witnesses are not god's people.
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JWB
"Further, turn down foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fights. 24 But a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained under evil, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed; as perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, 26 and they may come back to their proper senses out from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him for the will of that one." - 2 Timothy 2:23-26 (NWT)
Recovery, you will note that the above scripture admonishes a Christian to turn down FOOLISH and IGNORANT questionings. This I understand to mean questionings that result in no benefit, questions that are designed merely to stir up contention, rather than resolve issues. Now, I think there are some here who delight in creating contention, but my experience is that many will genuinely put forth their views because they want to benefit others. The benefit they wish to provide for others is expressed in writing about their experiences and sharing what they have learned in personal study and research to the end that they may help free others from the mental bondage that man-made religious organizations can cause.
On the other hand that scripture clearly puts you and anyone else who would make a claim to being a Christian to express yourself in a humble, mild manner. This, I think, is not evidenced by lumping everybody together as "immature" and their posts as "muck". Is this the way you would speak to people in the field service who might be quite aggressive to your message? What is your motivation here? Is it to castigate (no benefit), or to (as you no doubt see it) pull us out "from the snare of the Devil"? If it is the latter, then help us. Remember the story of the 100 sheep? (Luke 15:3-7).But we would still like to know whether or not you have read Crisis of Conscience. It's okay if you haven't, I'm sure we'll be able to share many salient points from it with you.
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33
What Proof Is There That Rutherford Was Responsible For The Pyramid Monument Near CTR's Grave?
by JWB inwhat proof is there that rutherford was responsible for the pyramid monument near ctr's grave?.
"charles taze russell died in 1916, the pyramid marker was installed in 1921 (5 years after his death), and the the masonic temple was built in the mid 1990s, these items have nothing to do with pastor russell's grave.
the masonic temple is not even on the cemetery grounds, it is a different property altogether.
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JWB
Thanks oomps and Finkelstein, I'm just curious that's all. Of course you probably know that many years later the WTS literally demonised the Great Pyramid. I wonder why they didn't put their money where their mouth was and remove that representation of such a demonic edifice?
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WT and the Illuminati - truth or fiction?
by SnowQueen ini've been reading around this subject of late and it seems to make a lot of sense.
i'm wondering if anyone is convinced and/or has seen anything that can substantiate or corroborate the 'facts' set out in these arguments.. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloodlines/russell.htm.
i was particularly fascinated to read the following:.
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JWB
Don't ask the question WHY before you've asked the questions WHERE, WHEN, HOW and WHAT. Use the TRIVIUM method. Conspiracy is a fact of life (two thieves planning a bank robbery). Sometimes its a case of WHICH conspiracy theory to believe, the official or some other.
I thought the following information may be of interest to some viewing this thread. The mention of the International Bible Students, Russell and Rutherford does not in my mind prove anything, however I have included a reproduction of one of Lady Queenborough's book's chapters for educational purposes.
"Edith Starr Miller [Lady Queenborough], the author of this book [Occult Theocrasy], was a British blue blood on par with Princess Diana. She understood occult religions and secret societies as she experienced them first hand--her husband was the 1st Baron of Queenborough, treasurer of the League of Nations and member of British Union of Fascists who helped secure oil monopolies for John D Rockefeller. Shortly after the book's publication, Edith Starr Miller, age 45, died, as even as the occult Grand Lodge of Canada attested, "under suspicious circumstances." Modernists dismiss Edith as "anti-Semitic," a term used by the narrow-minded to end open-minded discussion. Miller's sin? She wrote that Judaism's goal (and secret societies) was to enpower the super rich by controlling education and the mass media. She felt such goals were Satanic in origin. After reading Miller's opus, it is hard to argue otherwise in light of what is occurring in the world today. The work is simply fascinating." - Modern quote by 21st Century writer.----
OCCULT THEOCRASY (BY LADY QUEENBOROUGH - 1933)
CHAPTER XCVIII
THE RUSSELLITES
OR THE INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS
(Founded 1879)
The International Bible Student Movement was founded by Charles Taze Russell (1852-1916) with the object chiefly of attracting the lower middle class intelligentsia of Christian communities such as certain clerical workers, teachers, servants and persons not accessible to direct forms of propaganda. In America the movement has had great influence among the negro element.
In 1879 Russell founded The Watch Tower of which he was the sole editor.
The Russellite teaching, drawing its own arbitrary conclusions and proclaiming them as final, professes to prove from Biblical sources that all Christian churches are evil and corrupt, that the time of the Gentiles ended in 1914, and that the Jews must henceforth reign supreme over the world. It also elaborates an occult dogma alleged to be based on biblical precedents.
It condemns the Roman Catholic Church, referring to Rome in true esoteric Masonic style as Babylon and disposes of the Pope and his entire hierarchy as agents of the Antichrist who are doomed to extinction according to the familiar Masonic formulas of Albert Pike,
Mazzini and Co. We are further told on biblical autho-
[Page 539]
OCCULT THEOCRASY
rity, interpreting the following words in Rev. II. 24 "As they speak" that this means that "Satan is a name applicable to Rome as describing its characteristics.'
The Protestant Episcopal and other Christian churches which in Russell's graphic language are "the Harlot daughters of the Romish Church" and "have committed fornication" which term he interprets as meaning the union of Church and State, so bitterly opposed by the Jews in all countries, fare no better at the pen of this prolific writer, who predicts that, under the visible rulership of the Ancient Worthies (The Jewish Sanhedrin), those Gentiles who still believe in Christ will acknowledge his reign as an invisible one while submitting as Christians to all the hardships these Jewish lords might choose to put upon them.
Brother Russell gives us little hope for the time of tribulation which is upon us, for on page 122 of The Finished Mystery he wrecks any hopes we might still cherish with regard to benevolent brotherhoods in the following sentence — "As the trouble increases, men will seek, but in vain, for protection in the great rocks and fortresses of society (Freemasonry, Oddfellowship, and Trades Unions, Guilds, Trusts and all societies secular and ecclesiastical) and in the mountains (governments) of the earth".
The publications of The International Bible Students Association are interesting samples of political propaganda and seem well calculated to suppress possible instincts of revolt among such members of the Christian community as might object to the role allotted to them under the Jewish Super State.
The present head of this movement is John [Joseph] Rutherford.
1. The International Bible Students Association, The Finished Mystery, p. 43, pub. 1918. -
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Rejecting a life of 'FOGI' days, for one of 'CLEAR' days
by JWB inrejecting a life of 'fogi' days, for one of 'clear' days.
fear (of not living up to someone else's expectations).
obligation (to live a life that is restrictive).
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JWB
Thanks Mr Flipper, I'm so glad you're free and lovin' it!
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What Proof Is There That Rutherford Was Responsible For The Pyramid Monument Near CTR's Grave?
by JWB inwhat proof is there that rutherford was responsible for the pyramid monument near ctr's grave?.
"charles taze russell died in 1916, the pyramid marker was installed in 1921 (5 years after his death), and the the masonic temple was built in the mid 1990s, these items have nothing to do with pastor russell's grave.
the masonic temple is not even on the cemetery grounds, it is a different property altogether.
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JWB
WHAT PROOF IS THERE THAT RUTHERFORD WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PYRAMID MONUMENT NEAR CTR'S GRAVE?
"Charles Taze Russell died in 1916, the Pyramid marker was installed in 1921 (5 years after his death), and the The Masonic Temple was built in the mid 1990s, these items have nothing to do with Pastor Russell's grave. The Masonic Temple is not even on the cemetery grounds, it is a different property altogether. In fact, the Rosemont United Cemetery was never a Masonic cemetery. Many do not want you to see the first photo from 1916, showing that Pastor Russell was dead long before the Masonic Temple was built." - Extract from pastorrussell.blogspot.co.uk/2008/09/was-charles-taze-russell-mason.html
"What many misrepresent as being Russell’s gravestone, pyramid tomb or tombstone, grave marker, etc., is the pyramid monument that Joseph Rutherford had constructed in the year 1919, about five years after Russell died. This pyramid monument is not Russell’s gravestone, tombstone, or grave marker. Rutherford had this monument constructed in the middle of the plot owned by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, not just to honor Russell, but to honor all who died while working at the Watch Tower headquarters. There are many names inscribed on that monument, not just Russell’s. Nevertheless, there is no one buried in or under that monument." - Extract from ctr.reslight.net/?p=1212
I would be very interested in finding out if the above statements concerning the Pyramid marker's installation date and Rutherford's involvement can be corroborated by written or and/or oral statements from anyone who was in a position to know. -
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Rejecting a life of 'FOGI' days, for one of 'CLEAR' days
by JWB inrejecting a life of 'fogi' days, for one of 'clear' days.
fear (of not living up to someone else's expectations).
obligation (to live a life that is restrictive).
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JWB
REJECTING A LIFE OF 'FOGI' DAYS, FOR ONE OF 'CLEAR' DAYS
Fear (of not living up to someone else's expectations)
Obligation (to live a life that is restrictive)
Guilt (which lowers your self-esteem)
Isolation (from the wisdom and experiences of all sorts of people)
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Conscience (that inner voice that lets you know what is 'wrong')
Love (of yourself and others)
Empathy (for others)
Awareness (of the needs of others)
Revelation (through personal experience and education)
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Around about the turn of this twenty-first century I was in the process of dis-entangling myself from the organization. Back then I still harboured feelings that the religion I had grown up with was basically "good" and doing "God's will", but I realized that the heirachical nature of it all was a major problem. It just did not seem right that the various uninspired and extra-Biblical teachings sanctioned by a tiny group of men (whom I had never even met) could have such a hold on my view of the world and the consequent ritualistic way in which I lived my life. Looking back I can really see that Fear, Obligation, Guilt, and Isolation (from "the world") were a constant set of features as I grew up.
Having since spent twelve or so years devoid of the weekly repetition of pyschological programming and conditioning, I am now beginning to feel "normal". Despite what the WT suggests will happen to those who leave the organizational grip, I didn't "return to the vomit". I became just as selective of my associates and what filled my spare time as I had always done. I discovered a whole new world of people like me but who weren't JWs, but who had been confined in other mental prisons until the air of freedom that hit their nostrils from time to time woke them up.
My wish is for all current as well a ex- inmates to experience the joys of living without FOGI days. CLEAR days are so much better!
JWB -
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Ex-JW YouTuber films UFO
by cedars inthe first few minutes are fairly unremarkable, but it gets a little more interesting towards the end.... you can just about hear a child in the background say "oooh, there's a light in the sky.".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuuyrnqsfm4.
cedars.
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JWB
Cedars, as you know JWs already believe in extra-terrestrials, they call them angels! As far as 'first contact' goes, what about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Then there was Moses ...