Let's Discuss Ray Franz's Books

by Recovery 131 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Recovery

  I have been repeatedly pleaded with to read the books of Ray Franz in my short stay on this board. Apparently these are all the all-powerful, WT crushing arguments, that lead so many to leave JW's and become ruthless opposers of God's people. We can discuss any claims/statements/scriptural arguments presented in either of his books, as long as it somehow proves Jehovah's Witnesses are not God's people. Please do not fill this thread with long cut and paste from anti JW websites, ridiculous/fanciful stories, ridiculous anti-JW photos, or random questions that are not relevant to the subject at hand. I would like to engage in a serious, adult conversation. Oh yeah, please, no flip flopping. Either the Bible is God's word or it isn't. Pick a side and stick to it because it surely is convenient when proven wrong to say 'well the Bible is just a bunch of magic anyway'..

  I am looking forward to this discussion. Hopefully the members of this board can engage in a more serious scriptural debate, as was so poorly demonstrated here. (http://jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/235053/1/Who-Really-is-The-Faithful-and-Discreet-Slave) But I do acknowledge that AnnoMaly, Londo, and Jeffro are good debators who present good arguments.
• 

  King Solomon

  Just to clarify: have you actually read C of C? It would be rather pointless to debate it, if you've not even READ it, or only skimmed it....

  A) And if you HAVEN'T read it, maybe you can explain WHY....

  B) If you HAVE read it, feel free to explain WHY you violated GB's order to NOT read it. Perhaps you can present the scriptural basis for the FDS threatening rank-and-file JWs for reading a book they've labelled as 'apostate'?

  For the record, I HAVE read it, but found it to be a dull read, not worth risking getting DFed over (although, the very fact that you'd be risking getting DF'ed for reading such a dull book IS a question you SHOULD be asking yourself, not us).
• 

  leavingwt

  May I post photos of Watchtower literature?
• 

  kimbo

  I read it
• 

  puffthedragon

  There's an awful lot of rules to your invitation for a discussion. Sounds like someone has control issues. Lets engage in smalltalk about an important subject, but I want a solid, simple answer, about one of the most complex questions on earth, but lets not get detailed and bring facts into the matter. And don't dare use real-life examples, they have no bearing on the "truth".

  You may belong to a group that is high-control and discourages independent thinking, but don't ask for evidence and give us a list of do's and don'ts. If you want real honest answers, its going to take time and effort on YOUR part. Very few of us here care to interfere in your life and beliefs. If you are honestly looking for facts, you have to spend time, effort, soul-searching and open-minded research. We are glad to help you on your path, but it doesn't sound like you are ready.
• 

  Athanasius

  It doesn't look like Recovery has really recovered from the JW mindset. He didn't become a Watchtower slave overnight. So for him to break free of Watchtower slavery it will take more than a couple of visits to this forum.
• 

  talesin

  Who cares about Ray Franz' books?

  Really, YOU go ahead and explain the Daniel prophecies as related by the Tower.

  YOU explain why children who are RAPED are shunned.

  YOU explain why child molesters are protected by the WTBTS.

  YOU explain why one minute people must die because they need a kidney transplant, and the next minute, it's okay to accept one.

  YOU explain why my aunt died of leukemia before they changed their policy on blood fractions.

  Come on, let's hear it.

  I'm dying to know. No, wait a minute! Lots of other people have died, wanting to know.

  :)
• 

  talesin
• 

  dontplaceliterature

  It is a shame that "God's organization" has made you such an arrogant coward that you are willing to attack these books without having read them.

  Maybe one day you will feel enough self-worth to have the courage to read them. After all, wouldn't real truth hold up to scrutiny?
• 

  dontplaceliterature

  Did I mention that you were a coward?